Teen Killers Sentenced as Adults

[The Don]

The books are fiddled just as almost everything else is which is published by the government, unemployment figures have been fiddled for decades and still are as are inflation figures along with the sectioning of crime rates (by which they class certain things in differing categories) - I don't believe government because I have no reason to believe government because i'm afraid they lie all the time.

Now you keep saying its a 'waste of resources' - surely what the real waste of resources is 'rehabiliation' which doesn't work as shown with the video above and the work done by Peter Hitchnes (again showing how the figures are fiddled in a certain way to get certain results, see global warming also) along with locking these people up costing money and then allowing them out whilst they commit various crimes until they are eventually caught again which we then spend more money on concerning trials and so forth.

Execution doesn't have to be costly at all.



America barely uses it and has high crime rates.

I know the anti-death penalty lobby like to turn that around and pretend that because the United States has high crime rates, this shows that the death penalty does not work - when infact it is the opposite as it is seldom used in the States.

Proof or it didn't happen.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Proof or it didn't happen.

I have listed examples; inflation and unemployment for two major examples - see 'real unemployment graph uk' etc.

[luce]

I agree with some other posts on here if they're old enough to kill they are big enough to have their names released. If you take someones life in my opinion you should lose all your human rights and yes I do believe the death penalty works because it not only gets rid of the the psychopaths and sex offenders it deters people like this from committing the crimes because they're just idiots not malicious creeps.

The penal system in the UK is another debate but at the moment it seems like a waste of time and it's disgusting on how much money is spent on something which is effectively failing.

[FlyingJesus]

I see the same left wing nonsense has spread to the Canadian justice system just as it has in Great Britain, the idea that punishment is wrong and that people of sound mind are not responsible for their own actions which they take, rather that the sociological approach is what led them to this; background, gender, race and so forth - which most of us dismiss as complete tripe and rightly so. This case has led to a disgraceful sentence of 10 years which is the sort of thing which goes on day in day out in my country which is opposed by anyone who can rationally think and see the difference between right and wrong - which naturally excludes the ruling elite.

To be fair on this case as a singular event, they have given the maximum sentencing available and noted that rehabilitation for either of them has an extremely low likelihood, so I can't see their parole cases being anything more than a formality. Obviously the possibility of only serving 10 years for crimes like this seems like nothing so yes it's possible that there does need to be reform, but the prosecution in this case has (as far as I can see) done all that they can

That aside, the woman in the /A\ studio is totally good to go

[luce]

last week i had the pleasure of going to a crime conference at school where the person who hosted it was a man on known as a "lifer" on the charge of murder. He served 12 years and is never likely to go back in because i can't see him re-offending. In this case it doesn't bother me because knowing him the crime he committed was actually man slaughter but because he was charged with GBH with intend before the man died when he died the intent made it murder. Anyway this man got out on a tariff of 12 years for killing someone and out of 95,000 prisoners in the UK 45 will spend the rest of their life in there. There is a prison outside Nottingham which houses 1200 sex offenders, they'll all get out. In my opinion life should mean life, i don't care if you've passed your "sex offender" course in prison, you can fake it to get out!

basically in that mess of a paragraph what i am trying to say is primarily once you're in for life you should literally be in for life.

[Josh]

Life should mean life.

But I do not agree with the death penalty. Dan, you were telling Bethie was a hypocrite in page one of this thread and then you said you agree with the death penalty.

You're saying that if you killed someone with intent, you deserve to be killed yourself. So what makes government authorised murder okay? It's exactly the same. Murder is murder.

[-:Undertaker:-]

To be fair on this case as a singular event, they have given the maximum sentencing available and noted that rehabilitation for either of them has an extremely low likelihood, so I can't see their parole cases being anything more than a formality. Obviously the possibility of only serving 10 years for crimes like this seems like nothing so yes it's possible that there does need to be reform, but the prosecution in this case has (as far as I can see) done all that they can

That aside, the woman in the /A\ studio is totally good to go

Well thats what I mean, the system is broken thanks to a political class which has failed but which does not have to suffer the consquences of its failure whereas the electorate, often the worst off, do.

As they say, the law is an ass.

Life should mean life.

But I do not agree with the death penalty. Dan, you were telling Bethie was a hypocrite in page one of this thread and then you said you agree with the death penalty.

You're saying that if you killed someone with intent, you deserve to be killed yourself. So what makes government authorised murder okay? It's exactly the same. Murder is murder.

Because i'm not against all forms of killing/murder as I recognise that in some circumstances killing/murder is inevitable and/or justifiable - if I were against all forms of killing/murder, that would mean that in no circumstances do I think a life should be taken even if my life was in danger or my country threatened by a foreign power. This leads me to ask you, so on those grounds of no killing at all which you espouse - are you against all forms of war no matter what the circumstances and are you also telling me that you would not defend yourself with lethal force if need be?

Somehow I do not think you would stand by that, nor do I suspect you are against abortion.

The difference between murder and the death penalty is that murder is a life taken without need whereas the death penalty is a punishment for those who are of sound mind who have committed the most henious of crimes (such as taking the life of another human being) knowing what the possible consquences for their actions are. We are accountable for our actions before a court of law and a jury of our peers, murder on the other hand does not allow for a trial - it is a cold blooded act.

[Chippiewill]

I'd just like to point out that a death sentence isn't a punishment, it is a deterrent (Albeit an effective one), it does not help the person like a prison sentence, or a fine. Of course, neither does a proper life sentence which I believe to be just as pointless (Since they do not achieve anything by being in jail for the remainder of their life). It does not take a genius to figure out that anyone who wants to kill another person is not right in the head, which means that they cannot be responsible for their actions, the only moral thing to do is to help them with their clear mental problems.

Of course you have the problem of the deterrent but you could just as easily make jail not a fun place to be again. You could even make prisons profitable (And not a burden on the tax payer, perhaps even relief to the tax payer), give them physical labour jobs, start up Britain's older industries that have now since been outsourced, make them grow their own crops, their own food.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'd just like to point out that a death sentence isn't a punishment, it is a deterrent (Albeit an effective one), it does not help the person like a prison sentence, or a fine. Of course, neither does a proper life sentence which I believe to be just as pointless (Since they do not achieve anything by being in jail for the remainder of their life). It does not take a genius to figure out that anyone who wants to kill another person is not right in the head, which means that they cannot be responsible for their actions, the only moral thing to do is to help them with their clear mental problems.

The issue of somebody being of sound mind is that; in knowing what they did to be against the law and being responsible for their actions. A person with depression for example may contemplate suicide, but are responsible for his/her actions if they decide to take that route (due to the depression they are experiencing). Now obviously with a mental illness such as alzheimers disease for example you cannot put it down to the person as they are not of sound mind, they are not in control.

I think we all too often dismiss evil as a mental illness.

Of course you have the problem of the deterrent but you could just as easily make jail not a fun place to be again. You could even make prisons profitable (And not a burden on the tax payer, perhaps even relief to the tax payer), give them physical labour jobs, start up Britain's older industries that have now since been outsourced, make them grow their own crops, their own food.

Agreed, chain gangs (clearing land, picking crops etc) I believe in fully.

[GommeInc]

I'd just like to point out that a death sentence isn't a punishment, it is a deterrent (Albeit an ineffective one), it does not help the person like a prison sentence, or a fine. Of course, neither does a proper life sentence which I believe to be just as pointless (Since they do not achieve anything by being in jail for the remainder of their life). It does not take a genius to figure out that anyone who wants to kill another person is not right in the head, which means that they cannot be responsible for their actions, the only moral thing to do is to help them with their clear mental problems.

Changed the word for you- see bit in bold

It's not an effective deterrant, people assume killers will read the crime and punishment book and pick out crimes that fit their specifications - "Should I kill today? Hmm, I will check what punishment I will get". If someone hates someone, they will kill them without caring, in any country. Undertaker even says it himself, people are of sound mind when they kill, or at least are believed to be. Besides, small crime is the in thing these days - theft is up as with any "economically unsure" time in history, as is GBH and unruley behaviour.