Ireland to vote on EU Lisbon Treaty in October

[-:Undertaker:-]

You said that the only 3 countries who had a say on the Treaty turned it down, so you did suggest that France and the Netherlands rejected the LT. I dont get how thats making stuff up, no need to be abusive too. :S

-Our argument on the free markets isnt going anywhere but the last thing Ill say is that why in a free market situation would EU goods be sold at artificially high prices if no duty has been collected on them? Im not even sure thats legal. So what basis do you know theres secret EU taxes slapped on goods, please post evidence.
-Collective farming was used in Stalinist Russia, I have no idea why your accusing me of mocking dead gulags when all I said is if you want a good idea of CF they used it back then.
-Neil Kinnock is not a hate figure, neither was socialism hated in the 70's even if Labour did get voted out, so did the Tories in 97 so whats your point? You make it sound like Godzilla fgs. Many would say Thatcher is a hated politician so your argument just sounds like bias. If it wasnt for Labour we wouldnt have the NHS and we'd be at the mercy of health insurance industries like the USA is.
-Im not depriving you of a referendum just learn that they arent binding as we have no constitutional stance on them. Id much rather vote for a party in an election who has a stance on such a thing, ie UKIP.
-Finally you dont know there would be a loss on a referenda, neither do you know Europe agrees with your opinion as the Spaniards voted 77% in favour for it., whereas many other small nations such as Luxumborg have parties who have gathered high opinion polls on wanting corperation with European ties.

I have no problem with an issue of national identity as I know thats important to a lot of people which can stir resentment towards the EU, but to be so sensationalist and label it a superstate is pedantic, Britain isnt called Europeland is it?

Thats me done with this thread.

I did not say the treaty, I said reform on the European Union. The Libson Treaty and EU Consitution are the same anyway, even supporters of it admit it so it wouldn't make any difference regardless. The Libson Treaty was voted down by the Republic of Ireland and the EU Consitution was voted down by the French and Dutch - need we say more on how 'popular' the European Union is?

GommeInc posted evidence on this, we also know prices are higher on vegtables and fruit because the European Union puts caps on them/regulations - we come to this point again, the European Union is controlling our agrictulure, fishing, importing and exporting - that is not the mark of a sovereign state.

Socialism was hated in the 1970s, the country was bankrupt and we had to appeal to the IMF in 1979. 1979 was a turning point in British history, if you think people actually enjoyed being poor, enjoyed having strikes imposed on them and enjoyed the unions controlling the government then I have no hope at all for you.

Thatcher accomplished something, Neil Kinnock didn't. He had and still has no talent, hence why he was in the European Union. He is unelectable here so he was thrown into the EU, he also disagreed with the House of Lords yet accepted to be admitted into the House of Lords - I don't think there has ever been a bigger tosspot than Neil Kinnock, well on second thoughts maybe Michael Foot.

You may well rather to vote a party in that way, but the public want a referendum, again I shall ask why do you think we are not being given a referendum on the European Union or European Union reformal? - because it would lose.

Congratulations to Labour for bringing in the NHS, yes the NHS was a very good idea, however that was back in the 1940s and was not in modern times, and in modern times all the Labour Party has done is either back flip on their socialist morals yet continue to say how much they hate Thatcherism, or we could look to the 1970s where Labour nearly destroyed this country, or even now where the national debt of this country has soared and is still soaring, a child would understand that if you cant afford it you cant have it - Labour don't seem to be able to get this message.

The Kingdom of Spain has benefitted massively from the European Union, without EU money (aka the United Kingdoms) Spain would not of been able to have built/progressed as much as it has, however I am not from the Kingdom of Spain and I am from the United Kingdom. The Spanish also did not vote on the Constitution or the Treaty as you claimed they did before, so it was you who was making the story up.

The United Kingdom isn't part of a superstate just yet, it is very close to becoming a superstate, believe me, very close indeed.

[alexxxxx]

It does not matter whether the country is socialist, communist, monarchy, republic - anything. If the market is together and controlled like that then it is a command economy, a collective economy. Free markets are free, hence the word free in them. You yourself gave an example of how the Kingdom of Spain would be unable to sign such a treaty due to the European Union, that is not free market.

Free market enables that sovereign country to sign a trade/other treaty with whichever country it wants, and both work on a trade deal which suits them both. The borders of Europe haven't been abolished, they are just unchecked, for now at least before the European Union decides to abolish internal border marks.

The United States does have a a free market, we, the United Kingdom and all nations of the European Union do not. If you have the European Union telling you which vegtables/fruit of a certain size you are not allowed to sell - that is not free market.

If we were indeed free market the European Union would not exist, as it is the opposite of free market, the word free plays a large part.

You obviously don't understand what a free market is then. Because that isn't it. A free market has nothing to do with countries being able to sign treaties. I'm no longer going to argue with you over the eu/economics because you are too incompetent to argue on such a matter you obviously know nothing about. You're a typical daily mail reader; uninformed, opinionated, argumentative, irrational and unreasonable.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You obviously don't understand what a free market is then. Because that isn't it. A free market has nothing to do with countries being able to sign treaties. I'm no longer going to argue with you over the eu/economics because you are too incompetent to argue on such a matter you obviously know nothing about. You're a typical daily mail reader; uninformed, opinionated, argumentative, irrational and unreasonable.

I find it strange how you all feel the need to bring up the Daily Mail, I could bring up the Guardian all the time but I won't because I can discuss without having to mention newspapers. Free market is the ability to sign your own treaties, you yourself gave the example of the Kingdom of Spain issue telling us how Spain would be unable to sign a treaty with us over the future of British people in Spain, because of the European Union.

Free market is not command economy and not collectivisation, as I have said before, if it was free market the European Union would not need to exist, as that is free market, independant and individual.

[lick]

you should all be given a ban from Current Affairs all you do is argue about europe, i think a debate would be better.

[-:Undertaker:-]

you should all be given a ban from Current Affairs all you do is argue about europe, i think a debate would be better.

Why aren't you posting non-Europe topics then?
This is a current affair and I have every right to post it, just like everyone else can post about Michael Jackson all day long.

[lick]

Why aren't you posting non-Europe topics then?
This is a current affair and I have every right to post it, just like everyone else can post about Michael Jackson all day long.

posting and arguing are two different things, every time someone supports Europe you seem to shot it down without even reading or even thinking about what they have to say, i laughed when alexxx said the comment about "blalalalalalalal im am a rich snob" or something like that because the way you go on it makes you seem that way, and he is right england in not in the 19th century its 2009 things have to change the sooner you get that into your head the better.

[-:Undertaker:-]

posting and arguing are two different things, every time someone supports Europe you seem to shot it down without even reading or even thinking about what they have to say, i laughed when alexxx sayid the comment about "blalalalalalalal im am a rich snob" or something like that because the way you go on it makes you seem that way, and he is right england in not in the 19th centery its 2009. things have to change the sooner you get that into your head the better.

In that logic then, lets hand over our country because things 'have to change'. Things have been changing since the world began and the United Kingdom, and former Kingdoms of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland have all existed for a number of years and led the way in the world. If we were desperatly poor and losing influence, then maybe i'd say join the European Union however we are not.

As for rich, i'm not at all and as for snob, well you have just totally ignored all what has been said and jumped in the discussion - who really is the snob?. I'll discuss with people, thats what a forum is for, you on the other hand would prefer not to as I am pretty sure you don't have a clue what your on about and are hoping to score some 'forum points' with remarks like that.

[lick]

In that logic then, lets hand over our country because things 'have to change'. Things have been changing since the world began and the United Kingdom, and former Kingdoms of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland have all existed for a number of years and led the way in the world. If we were desperatly poor and losing influence, then maybe i'd say join the European Union however we are not.

As for rich, i'm not at all and as for snob, well you have just totally ignored all what has been said and jumped in the discussion - who really is the snob?. I'll discuss with people, thats what a forum is for, you on the other hand would prefer not to as I am pretty sure you don't have a clue what your on about and are hoping to score some 'forum points' with remarks like that.

There you go not reading things, I never said you was a snob i said when i alexxx made that comment i laughed because its the way you act

[-:Undertaker:-]

There you go not reading things, I never said you was a snob i said when i alexxx made that comment i laughed because its the way you act

I never said you called me a snob, I said you are acting like one. Your 'reply' to what I wrote on the European Union sums your attitude up nicely really, the lights are on but nobodys home. There is nothing wrong with debate and although I don't agree with what alexxxxx is saying, at least he will defend his corner and discuss it, whereas you haven't had anything to say in your reply which is a shame because all that will lead to now is real arguing/pointless replies over eachother, which has led the topic off course and will only get us in trouble, so for that reason; the end.