'Second hand smoke' myth

[-:Undertaker:-]

I guess you didn't get the joke.

Anyway, it seems pretty clear this thread is everyone vs Undertaker.

I take it in my stride.

Of course not, eating fatty foods has its benefits and doesn't make those around you stink But of course, life is filled with hypocritical comments. Though smoking raises a lot of money (tax wise), it's still a pretty vulgar habit but that's just how opinions operate. There doesn't seem to be any backing for reinstating smoking in pubs, possibly due to society slowly moving away from it. It was slowly becoming unpopular before the ban was ever put in place because non-smokers in their large numbers were put off by bars, clubs and pubs stinking of smoke (which now smell of vomit and body odour, but we shall ignore that )

A society which is ruled by the biggest mob isn't and cannot be a free society.

People are allowed the choice, but ultimately smoking is an off putting habit for many people and you cannot please everyone. That said, I can not see the harm in some places allowing smoking inside in either special rooms or in the main communal area at the manager's discretion. Presumably they hold the keys to the business and understand what people do and do not want. Heck, more places might open up if they are smoker specific.

There are a lot of off putting habits, many of which you will find off-putting but I won't and the same the other way around. That doesn't mean they ought to be banned because I have no right to tell you how to live your life just as you have no right to tell me how to live my life. The same principal applies to telling landlords (of which you are not) what they can and cannot do on their own premises.

Remove legislation from the issue and you'll have both smoking pubs and smoke-free pubs, problem solved.

tl;dr

But, that post isn't worth the space in which it's kept. Smoking does cause health issues, you can't dispute it. 'Dirty' habits such as eating fatty foods only affect the one individual, not anyone else in the vicinity so therefore is up to the individual person.

I'm arguing about second hand smoke which is a myth that has been debuked, not smoking itself which does carry a risk there's no doubt just as alcohol carries a risk, walking outside and crossing the road carries a risk and so forth. But with fatty foods you could also argue (as some have touched upon) that they do affect you as you have to pay for all the obesity problems which arise from eating fatty foods.

So why is nobody here calling for a ban on fatty foods?

But when another person is put off going to a bar because of people smoking, then surely it's up to the person smoking to allow the person to have the free society in which they can enjoy themselves without having to breath in smoke. But maybe that's too common sensical.

No, thats down to the business owner who then decides which course of action is best for his own personal opinion and his business itself. A free society isn't about having what you want (well it is) but its also about accepting that there are activities which will go on around you which you do not like or even hate.

Otherwise, who is to say who will organise this society and to what preferences?

[The Don]

I take it in my stride.



A society which is ruled by the biggest mob isn't and cannot be a free society.



There are a lot of off putting habits, many of which you will find off-putting but I won't and the same the other way around. That doesn't mean they ought to be banned because I have no right to tell you how to live your life just as you have no right to tell me how to live my life. The same principal applies to telling landlords (of which you are not) what they can and cannot do on their own premises.

Remove legislation from the issue and you'll have both smoking pubs and smoke-free pubs, problem solved.



I'm arguing about second hand smoke which is a myth that has been debuked, not smoking itself which does carry a risk there's no doubt just as alcohol carries a risk, walking outside and crossing the road carries a risk and so forth. But with fatty foods you could also argue (as some have touched upon) that they do affect you as you have to pay for all the obesity problems which arise from eating fatty foods.

So why is nobody here calling for a ban on fatty foods?



No, thats down to the business owner who then decides which course of action is best for his own personal opinion and his business itself. A free society isn't about having what you want (well it is) but its also about accepting that there are activities which will go on around you which you do not like or even hate.

Otherwise, who is to say who will organise this society and to what preferences?

Are you too dumb or just too close minded to be able to comprehend what we’re saying?!

BECAUSE EATING FATTY FOODS ONLY AFFECTS THE INDIVIDUAL CONSUMING THEM, NOT EVERYONE IN THE VACINITY.

[GommeInc]

A society which is ruled by the biggest mob isn't and cannot be a free society.

There are a lot of off putting habits, many of which you will find off-putting but I won't and the same the other way around. That doesn't mean they ought to be banned because I have no right to tell you how to live your life just as you have no right to tell me how to live my life. The same principal applies to telling landlords (of which you are not) what they can and cannot do on their own premises.

Remove legislation from the issue and you'll have both smoking pubs and smoke-free pubs, problem solved.

But surely if the majority of a population believe something is wrong, is that not the base for national culture. It isn't mob culture per se.

But in a free country, wouldn't people be allowed to freely ask to have someone put their cigarette out? What if it's not just one person against an individual smoking? Although the smoker has the right to freely do what he pleases, do the "mob" not have that right to freely eat or drink at a pub without the smell, too? Surely the inability to ask in a free country deminishes the very core of being in a free country? If a smoker is putting off people from eating and drinking at a bar, shouldn't they do so out of respect rather than use "freedom of expression" as their life line?

[Ajthedragon]

I don't care about the harm it does. It's a disgusting habit that should never of happened. There are zilch benefits when it comes to smoking, and people stupid enough to take up the habit should seperate themselves and smoke outside to respect others. It's forcing respect onto people who partake in a stinky, dirty habit, because they're too selfish to remvoe themselves from the company of people who do not want to leave a place after a night out stinking of tobacco smoke.

I'm with this. All my family smoke, minus the young and it's an awful habit and they make me stink.

Fortunately my 80 year-old Nan has seen the light of day (only took her 65 years, see anyone can stop) and as has my Dad.

I'm all for the ban in public spaces still, I don't want to breathe in others smoke and I shouldn't have to do so.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Are you too dumb or just too close minded to be able to comprehend what we’re saying?!

Oh my lord, to make it easy this time round, i've seperated the two sticking points (see below) and await your reply.

BECAUSE EATING FATTY FOODS ONLY AFFECTS THE INDIVIDUAL CONSUMING THEM, NOT EVERYONE IN THE VACINITY.

Those around will ultimately have to pick up the tab in healthcare costs, therefore it does effect those around them. So would you now like to come out in favour of banning fatty foods, along with stating yourself that you do not consume fatty foods as an individual?

If you want to use the example of 'effects people directly' then I direct you back to the gay pride example where it does affect people who to not approve mentally and can make them feel reviled by the displays. Now, have they not a 'right' to decency according to their taste when they walk in public places?

So two scenarios there and hopefully you'll give a proper reply this time, instead of repeating the same drivel and accusing me of not being able to understand what you are saying.

But surely if the majority of a population believe something is wrong, is that not the base for national culture. It isn't mob culture per se.

Because only certain issues can be decided via democracy such as EU membership for example, issues such as this (where you can walk away from something you do not like) are judged on liberty and not on mob rule which is what democracy often turns into and self-destructs as people use government as a tool to tell others how to live and take financially from the other side.

But in a free country, wouldn't people be allowed to freely ask to have someone put their cigarette out?

Yeah they would, and if they don't own the property that they are asking the smoker to put out the cigarette on then the smoker can decline. If however they do own the premises and they ask the smoker to put out the cigarette then the smoker has to put out the cigarettes due to property rights.

Its really a simple system and its how we get along in life, as opposed to following government legislation.

What if it's not just one person against an individual smoking? Although the smoker has the right to freely do what he pleases, do the "mob" not have that right to freely eat or drink at a pub without the smell, too? Surely the inability to ask in a free country deminishes the very core of being in a free country? If a smoker is putting off people from eating and drinking at a bar, shouldn't they do so out of respect rather than use "freedom of expression" as their life line?

No because property rights form the core of a free society. The ultimate decision rests with the property owner, if all landlords decide not to allow any smoking on premises then that is a free society because it is done on the basis of 'I own these premises and not the government, therefore my rules are enforced'. Of course it would never be 100% against smoking or 100% for smoking amongst landlords because landlords themselves will have views on the topic along with catering to what their customers want.

I'm with this. All my family smoke, minus the young and it's an awful habit and they make me stink.

Fortunately my 80 year-old Nan has seen the light of day (only took her 65 years, see anyone can stop) and as has my Dad.

I'm all for the ban in public spaces still, I don't want to breathe in others smoke and I shouldn't have to do so.

I don't like the trousers you wear or the hairstyle you wear, would you like to be at the end of my ban? See, I shouldn't have to see those awful trousers you wear when i'm in the high street.

Sound ridiculous? same argument you advocate, different example.

[IAMU2]

I've often found those who shout about 'bigotry' or 'ignorance' are ignorant themselves.

Classic.

Oh deary me it isn't harmful (SHS), please see the evidence on the topic

"The effects of other people's smoking in my presence is so small it doesn't worry me"

None the less, there are effects and this doesn't go down well with non-smokers, visually, they can see you, and physically, the smell, the minor effects. Whereas your drag queen argument is completely lacking intelligent response, look away.. Don't rant in a forum how you don't like drag queens, yet want to 'respect' other peoples decisions in life. Tobacco kills 15,000 people a day - one person every six seconds, yet cannabis, has killed no-one, not even a hint of cancer. I will give the article a good read when I get home - you need to do some hard research on my cannabis isn't legalized buddy, 'mental illness brain mush'.. Haha. Get informed.

Ps; I am not influenced by anyone European at all, I despise the British government and want none of that.

And also, "you do not represent a large proportion of the british population deary" - was a FACT. Don't go raging at someone because they also have an opinion, how do you think they feel- you just revealing their personal life details eh?


Sucks being the minority?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Classic.

Oh indeed its true, just look at your reaction to my proposal to ban gay prides "bigot" and all the rest thats thrown at conservative comments like that, but when you propose to ban smoking somehow thats not at all facist-like. I want to allow both even if I may not agree, you wish to ban what you dont like and allow what you do like.

None the less, there are effects and this doesn't go down well with non-smokers, visually, they can see you, and physically, the smell, the minor effects. Whereas your drag queen argument is completely lacking intelligent response, look away.. Don't rant in a forum how you don't like drag queens, yet want to 'respect' other peoples decisions in life.

Oh I agree with you that I should simply look away, just as you should walk away from cigarette smoke.

Tobacco kills 15,000 people a day - one person every six seconds, yet cannabis, has killed no-one, not even a hint of cancer. I will give the article a good read when I get home - you need to do some hard research on my cannabis isn't legalized buddy, 'mental illness brain mush'.. Haha. Get informed.

I know why cannabis isn't legalised, because people in your mindset (the same mindset, just concerning tobacco) think that they know better than cannabis consumers/smokers. I would legalise it tommorow without any restrictions, if you wish to destroy your mind with cannabis along with others drugs then you can do so just as smokers choose to increase their risk to other disease by smoking.

I don't and never have smoked either, but do I want to restrict either like you do? no.

And also, "you do not represent a large proportion of the british population deary" - was a FACT. Don't go raging at someone because they also have an opinion, how do you think they feel- you just revealing their personal life details eh?

Sucks being the minority?

Well i've just given examples of how i'm in the majority concerning most issues which range from our membership of the European Union, mass immigration, the Monarchy, foreign policy, education, crime and justice....... but if you want to ignore all of that thats just fine, doesn't bode well for your attempt to make me out as some crackpot minority though.

[GirlNextDoor15]

Personally I feel smoking should be banned completely

Banning smoking completely won't help to solve the problem. What needs to be done is to educate them about the disadvantages of smoking.

So it should be banned altogether as an illegal drug. No questions asked, to be honest. This is a fact.

Like I said. It's not going to help.

Anyways, second hand smoke makes my clothes stink and that's more than enough reason to ban it.

So is going to Mcdonald's and all those fast food outlets.

Smoking is a dirty habit, everyone should just get high and enjoy cancer free life haha. - it's proven that marijuana increases brain cells, unlike it's unhealthy brothers alcohol and cigarettes..

How can you enjoy cancer free life when you consume junk food and smoke pot? Smoking IS a DIRTY HABIT. But, it is not the only reason why you get lung cancer etc. How can marijuana increases brain cells? :S If you want a healthy life, I suggest you to backpack and live in the mountain. :L

[Ajthedragon]

I don't like the trousers you wear or the hairstyle you wear, would you like to be at the end of my ban? See, I shouldn't have to see those awful trousers you wear when i'm in the high street.

Sound ridiculous? same argument you advocate, different example.

Does it effect the way you smell? Oh wait no, so it's not the same argument, different example.

It's effecting my smell (people often ask if I smoke, to which I rage), therefore I shouldn't have to breathe it or have to smell of it.

---------- Post added 22-12-2011 at 10:57 AM ----------

Also they won't ban it because it creates a lot of tax revenue.

[The Don]

Those around will ultimately have to pick up the tab in healthcare costs, therefore it does effect those around them. So would you now like to come out in favour of banning fatty foods, along with stating yourself that you do not consume fatty foods as an individual?

Wow... What a laughable comparison, i'm leaving this debate as you are clearly wrong which is why you've resulted to using ridiculous comparisons. Even if your argument was slightly justified (which it is not) the people around them wouldn't pick up on the health tab due to the NHS. If, however, people eating fatty foods did directly affect those around them, then yes, I would be in favor of banning fatty foods in public areas but considering this isn't the case and the fact that you've got such skewed beliefs and are clearly too ignorant to reason with, i'm leaving the debate.