Report Infraction Problems Thread ~ Should it be private?

[flatface]

haiiiiiiiiiii,

Just wondering, why is it that secondary appeals must be made via the support system? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the support system for any warning/infraction appeal. When users don't agree with the response to their appeal most of the time they have something else to add or a question to ask about the decision they're always redirected to the support system, I just don't understand why the system works like this... Like I said above, surely it makes more sense to abolish the thread and just use the support system instead?

Also, if anything to do with ban appeals is seen as private, why aren't infractions/warning appeals kept private too?

[Hecktix]

I think it would be a bit too much to use the support system to appeal infractions, the whole thing is a faff and in my opinion unnecessary even for ban appeals - the only reason it is handy for ban appeals is because it can be accessed whilst banned.

I don't personally like the appeal infraction thread and to be perfectly honest it's something I sometimes forget to check and to be honest with you I agree that infraction appeals should be private.

Perhaps it would be a better idea to have them dealt with via PM (i.e. PM a Super Moderator (and me) for a moderator's infraction or PM me for a Super Moderators infraction) - as to be fair a lot of people already do this.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this idea from any members as it's something I am keen to change and +rep for bringing this up, Josh.

[Nixt]

The point of using the Support System is that when someone disagrees with their infraction they are, more often than not, keen to continue arguing their point over and over, creating a confusing dialogue in the report infraction problems thread. It is clearer and easier for us to have one thread, to which an individual can submit one appeal to either a Super Moderator (if a Moderator issued the infraction) or to the Forum Manager. The SMod / FM can then give their take on the infraction and normally, a second opinion really is all it needs. I think the decisions made in the thread are, 95% of the time, are perfectly fine and thus the support system is needed only as a secondary measure to prevent the build up of argument from a frustrated member and the Super Moderators attempting to appease him.

The Support System allows a clear appeal (if the initial appeal fails) to senior members of staff - myself, MattGarner and Oli, which is an advantage in itself. The infraction can then be discussed a lot more freely and clearly if someone choose to escalate the appeal.

I see no problem with the thread, and therefore don't see the need in shifting to PM. This, if anything, will only confuse things as certain individuals won't know who to PM or how to lay out the appeal. The Infractions thread provides clear instruction and clear reference for every individual to consult if necessary. Equally, I feel that something such as that is good to be in the public eye. It shows that justice is being served if an infraction is unfair, or that we do not waver on rules that should not have been broken.

Ultimately, I stand by the mantra I have cited many a time before now. I do not believe it is broken and therefore, do not try to fix it.

[Catzsy]

The point of using the Support System is that when someone disagrees with their infraction they are, more often than not, keen to continue arguing their point over and over, creating a confusing dialogue in the report infraction problems thread. It is clearer and easier for us to have one thread, to which an individual can submit one appeal to either a Super Moderator (if a Moderator issued the infraction) or to the Forum Manager. The SMod / FM can then give their take on the infraction and normally, a second opinion really is all it needs. I think the decisions made in the thread are, 95% of the time, are perfectly fine and thus the support system is needed only as a secondary measure to prevent the build up of argument from a frustrated member and the Super Moderators attempting to appease him.

The Support System allows a clear appeal (if the initial appeal fails) to senior members of staff - myself, MattGarner and Oli, which is an advantage in itself. The infraction can then be discussed a lot more freely and clearly if someone choose to escalate the appeal.

I see no problem with the thread, and therefore don't see the need in shifting to PM. This, if anything, will only confuse things as certain individuals won't know who to PM or how to lay out the appeal. The Infractions thread provides clear instruction and clear reference for every individual to consult if necessary. Equally, I feel that something such as that is good to be in the public eye. It shows that justice is being served if an infraction is unfair, or that we do not waver on rules that should not have been broken.

Ultimately, I stand by the mantra I have cited many a time before now. I do not believe it is broken and therefore, do not try to fix it.

Totally agree. It shows that the mods operate the system in a fair and balanced way and if they get it wrong it is put right in the public view. Also I do believe that members who read it get a better understanding of what they can and can't do and to them It is probably more interesting than reading the rules. Changing it to Pm could lead to allegations of favourtism whether justified or not.

[Hecktix]

The particular aspect of the thread I do not like is that it is sometimes embarassing for a member to be put right by a S'mod or myself - sometimes members get a bit argumenative and again I don't think this is right in public view.

I'm fine either way, I do what the members want but I also have to consider how easy it would be for me and my team too and one problem I have always had since I've been a moderator is that not enough people use the infractions thread even if told to.

[Grig]

Maybe have an infraction appeal sub-forum where a member can make a new thread or something and from there can discuss it etc. or make the settings more private. Although from my knowledge I have no idea how this could be. It would be nice of it could be made more private !

[flatface]

Maybe have an infraction appeal sub-forum where a member can make a new thread or something and from there can discuss it etc. or make the settings more private. Although from my knowledge I have no idea how this could be. It would be nice of it could be made more private !

I was thinking about this earlier, would be a good idea. I do think that infraction appeals should be kept private, which is one of the reasons why I created this thread. I think the AI thread is outdated - I personally wouldn't like my appeal or the response to my appeal to be publicly viewable to all of the forum. Back to my original point, ban appeals are private so why aren't warning/infraction appeals.

Also what Oli said - it can be quite embarrassing for a member to place an appeal via the thread and get a paragraph underneath it in red to explain why it is fair. I think it would save a lot of time to have a system like Grig suggested where a user can ask further questions or give further evidence to why their infraction isn't valid and not be redirected to the support system.

[Hecktix]

It would be quite easy to have a subforum - quite like the "Report Rule Breaking or Serious Abuse" forum where members can post threads privately and only Super Moderators & Administrators can see the threads.

[flatface]

It would be quite easy to have a subforum - quite like the "Report Rule Breaking or Serious Abuse" forum where members can post threads privately and only Super Moderators & Administrators can see the threads.

I think this would be much better, the current thread seems is also quite messy with previous appeals. A new subforum would allow members to view all their appeals made in the past if needs be, it also allows super moderators and administrators to search the subforum for specific appeals. It would be like the system managers use to request perms for staff, not sure if it's still used but it was when bomb ed was around.

[Nixt]

I'd be quite happy with a separate appeals forum for it, that wouldn't do any harm I guess. That way it can be easily monitored by several people. My main aversion to PMs is, as Rosie said, the claims to favouritism and the fact there would be massively long and argumentative PM exchanges that really are unnecessary. It would be interesting to see what members in general think of the idea of having a separate, private, forum for infraction appeals.