That pointless and shameful war

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

As Dave 'does the talking', war dead are sneaked out of the back gate

The flag-wrapped coffins of dead servicemen are to be driven out of the back gate of RAF Brize Norton when it takes over from Lyneham (a few weeks from now) as the arrival point for the fallen.

They will then be routed down side roads to avoid nearby Carterton – a town almost exactly the same size as Wootton Bassett – and make their way to the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford along A-roads and bypasses. There’ll be a small guard of honour near the hospital entrance (there already is) but somehow or other the cortege won’t go down any High Streets.

I will tell you in a moment what the official excuses are for this. I should have thought the mere words ‘back gate’ would tell most people all they need to know about this decision. And despite the Prime Minister’s oily award of the title ‘Royal’ to Wootton Bassett, you can bet that he’d much rather the public scenes of grief and remembrance in that place had never happened, and that nobody noticed the frequent deaths his weakness and political cowardice are causing.

In the same way, the Defence Ministry has almost completely succeeded in covering up the appalling numbers of men who have been gravely injured in Afghanistan because the Government hasn’t the guts to quit this meaningless war. We hardly ever see them. Were they all to be assembled in one photograph, the nation would demand instant withdrawal and probably get it. The official version is that the families of the dead will be using a new ‘Repatriation Centre’ at Brize Norton, and that it is near the back gate. Routing the hearses through the base might disrupt its normal operations.

And here’s what was said by Andrew Robathan, whose stirring title is ‘Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans’. Speaking to Radio Oxford, he explained: ‘The side gate was seen by the Ministry of Defence and the police as the most appropriate way to take out future corteges.’ I love that word ‘appropriate’, the favourite adjective of those who have quietly forsaken the idea that there are such things as ‘right’ and ‘wrong’.

He continued: ‘I am not sure taking coffins in hearses past schools, past families, past married quarters is necessarily the thing that everybody would wish to see .  .  . the focus must be on the families of the dead service personnel. They are the people who care most. That is where our focus is.’ This is a curious statement. None of us exactly ‘wishes’ to see a funeral going by. But surely death should not be hidden away. And surely it is right that all of us – especially the young and service families – should be reminded of the price of courage and duty, and given the opportunity to salute these fine things.

You can believe the various official excuses. Or you might recall that until (in April 2008) this newspaper highlighted the way the hearses were left to fight their way through indifferent traffic, even cut up by impatient motorists at roundabouts, they did not get a police escort for the final few miles to the hospital. Mr Cameron says that he will do the talking about war, and the commanders should do the fighting. Well, he may have a point there, or he would if he were not militarily and diplomatically clueless.

But he might also mention that while he is doing the talking, real men are doing the dying, and their families are doing the weeping. Personally, I don’t think he or his Government colleagues are grown-up enough to pay the price of their own vanity and bombast. So they sneak the dead out by the back gate, and hope it doesn’t get on the TV.

What a disgrace this government is as is the last, involving us in wars which do not concern us and creeping us into yet another war in Libya in which I warned would end up as a 'mission creep' and it has - NATO are now aiming to kill Gaddafi (who was a friend of the west until we thought he was toast back in the Spring) which is way out of their UN resolution remit.

We had one war in which our Prime Minister and government lied to us about in order to involve us in, with an opposition party (the Conservatives) which failed to do their job and oppose is on the grounds it was a blantant lie - we also now have a war in Afghanistan in which we prop up a corrupt government whilst the mission has no achieveable aim or ending and to top that off we have a new war opening in Libya in which we are supporting the opposition to our former friend purely on the grounds that we thought he was toast, turned our backs on him and he managed to fight back making us look the fools.

To top that off, the United States is drone bombing Yemen and Pakistan killing many innocents and we stand there and wonder why Al Qaeda is so successful in stirring up hatred against the west.

What are our troops dying for? why are we in Libya? what concern of ours is Afghanistan? thoughts?

[Jordy]

The media will still report the deaths of servicemen and the arrival of their bodies in the UK regardless of whether they go through a village or not.

Strikes me as a ridiculous conspiracy theory all this "its being done through the backdoor to protect Cameron", it's bad enough people write such drivel nevermind believe it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The media will still report the deaths of servicemen and the arrival of their bodies in the UK regardless of whether they go through a village or not.

Nobody disputes that, we're talking here about when the war dead touchdown on British soil.

Strikes me as a ridiculous conspiracy theory all this "its being done through the backdoor to protect Cameron", it's bad enough people write such drivel nevermind believe it.

Or is it that they are rightly ashamed of this war? why are war dead being driven down back alleyways?

Not a conspiracy at all, just a cowardly government with its shameful war/s, the key part being;

‘I am not sure taking coffins in hearses past schools, past families, past married quarters is necessarily the thing that everybody would wish to see .  .  . the focus must be on the families of the dead service personnel. They are the people who care most. That is where our focus is.’ This is a curious statement. None of us exactly ‘wishes’ to see a funeral going by. But surely death should not be hidden away.

Why are government ministers so keen to hide the war dead?

[Jordy]

Nobody disputes that, we're talking here about when the war dead touchdown on British soil.

Or is it that they are rightly ashamed of this war? why are war dead being driven down back alleyways?

Not a conspiracy at all, just a cowardly government with its shameful war/s, the key part being;

Why are government ministers so keen to hide the war dead?

They're not hiding the war dead seeing as the people of Britain will know about the deaths of military personnel whatever route they take. It's a complete conspiracy theory that they are purposefully avoiding villages so that people won't know personnel are dying and the government won't look bad. What evidence is there to support this other than something far-fetched? The alleyways reference for instance...

In this country we don't parade around the dead anyway, they went through Wooton Bassett because it was the route from the RAF base to the hospital (much like this is). It's all just going from A to B, the journey taken allows for people to of course pay their respects to the dead but it's not the point of the journey. What do you propose? Taking a detour through London past the BBC, ITN and Sky News studios just so everyone see's that people are dying in Afghanistan (When everybody knows that it's unfortunately going on anyway).

[Shar]

I have no idea why we're in Afghanistan anymore, I don't get why we were in there in the first place, it was not an absolute necessity.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They're not hiding the war dead seeing as the people of Britain will know about the deaths of military personnel whatever route they take. It's a complete conspiracy theory that they are purposefully avoiding villages so that people won't know personnel are dying and the government won't look bad. What evidence is there to support this other than something far-fetched? The alleyways reference for instance...

Yes they are, the images of coffins driving through a town carrying war dead from a war many of us know see as fruitless and pointless are much more moving than 'SKY NEWS: 2 SOLDIERS DEAD NAMED AS...' which is something the government would very much like to see hushed up.

The main party leaders (who support these wars) have never, from my knowledge, stood in Wootton Bassett (correct me if i'm wrong) to see the results of their war firsthand and the U.S. government tried to ban pictures of coffins coming home not long ago when disembarking from the aircraft, images like that do not play well with the public as they very well know.

I have no idea why we're in Afghanistan anymore, I don't get why we were in there in the first place, it was not an absolute necessity.

Indeed, now involving ourselves in another war in Libya.

[Mathew]

We're in Libya because we're not going to sit back and watch whilst a dictator like Gaddafi kills his own people. We must consider ethics and values at times like this and at the end of the day... it's all about morals.

[Jordy]

Yes they are, the images of coffins driving through a town carrying war dead from a war many of us know see as fruitless and pointless are much more moving than 'SKY NEWS: 2 SOLDIERS DEAD NAMED AS...' which is something the government would very much like to see hushed up.

I don't believe the party leaders ever stood in Wooton Bassett (correct me if i'm wrong) and the U.S. government tried to ban pictures of coffins coming home not long ago when disembarking from the aircraft, images like that do not play well.

How do you know it's something the government would very much like to see it hushed up? This all reeks of baseless and ridiculous conspiracies.

Yes they are moving images but that's hardly the point of the journeys, maybe they should release video footage of soldiers dying in Afghanistan as that would be moving :/ - We don't parade around dead people in this country like Iran calling them all "Heroes" and "Saviors". The deaths are announced, their bodies are respectfully moved from A to B (not paraded around infront of people taking unnecessary detours) and we quietly let the families get on with the funerals.

[-:Undertaker:-]

We're in Libya because we're not going to sit back and watch whilst a dictator like Gaddafi kills his own people. We must consider ethics and values at times like this and at the end of the day... it's all about morals.

But isn't that what we've done since Gaddafi came into power in the 1960s? isn't that what we're doing now in Saudi Arabia among others?

How do you know it's something the government would very much like to see it hushed up? This all reeks of baseless and ridiculous conspiracies.

Because of their actions, which i've just kindly listed for you with two examples from both sides of the Atlantic.

Yes they are moving but that's hardly the point of the journeys, maybe they should release video footage of soldiers dying in Afghanistan as that would be moving :/ - We don't parade around dead people in this country like Iran calling them all "Heroes" and "Saviors". The deaths are announced, their bodies are respectfully moved from A to B (not paraded around infront of people taking unnecessary detours) and we quietly let the families get on with the funerals.

I'm not asking for a parade, i'm just asking why the practice of the war dead being driven through the town nearby in a salute isn't being continued and is being dropped. Could it be possible that the government is ashamed and does not like the public seeing the results of these wars, hence why Mr Cameron, Mr Miliband and Mr Clegg are not ever seen at the side of the road with the coffins coming past?

Why this sudden change?

[Shar]

We're in Libya because we're not going to sit back and watch whilst a dictator like Gaddafi kills his own people. We must consider ethics and values at times like this and at the end of the day... it's all about morals.

Not trying to sound rude or anything but I really think you're being naive, since when did the government care abut morals? And they always watch dictators like Gaddafi kill their own people. Look at countries in the middle east such as Bahrain.

But isn't that what we've done since Gaddafi came into power in the 1960s? isn't that what we're doing now in Saudi Arabia among others?

Agreed.

There's a lot of dictators in the world doing what Gaddafi does but the only difference is that they do not get as much media coverage as this case is getting, there's always nit picking when it comes to this and thus we're ignorant of it.