'I am just a loyal Conservative.'

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/

'I am just a loyal Conservative.'

Loyal to country or party? Douglas Carswell MP

That sentence sums up all that is wrong with politics today.

It was the reported response of Conservative MP, Douglas Carswell, when we was told that fellow Tory MP, Claire Perry, had directed a foul mouthed comment at him in the House of Commons – namely ‘Why don’t you f*** off and join UKIP?’

Carswell is putting tribal party loyalty before all else. He claims to believe the United Kingdom should not be part of the European Union. Nevertheless he doggedly remains a member of a political party whose leadership and policy is to remain part of the EU at any cost, to deny the electorate a referendum and to conceal the extent to which the EU is the true government of this country.

How can a man who holds the view he claims remain a loyal Conservative when that party behaves in the way it does? The party’s position is sewn up tight. The leadership sets the policy, regardless of the wishes of the membership. Behind the scenes and out of the public gaze there is a powerful group of people with vested interests who bankroll and control the direction of the party. They determine who will lead it and what agenda will be followed, to suit their interests irrespective of the impact on the rest of the country. The Conservative agenda will not be changed.

It is not dissimilar to Labour taking its direction from Union barons and the uber rich champagne socialists who want to pull up the ladder behind them after acquiring wealth and influence.

Being an MP is a good gig, with its good pay and expenses and the illusion of power and influence that comes with it. Carswell, for all his bluster and verbiage, is just another Europlastic happily sacrificing supposed principles to cling to tribal party loyalty in service of his own interest – namely remaining an MP. When a person sees it for what it is they quickly realise Carswell couldn’t be a more loyal Conservative if he tried.

Voters who oppose EU membership yet continue to vote Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem only have themselves to blame for this country’s ever deeper integration into the EU and ever greater control by Brussels. Until they stop being taken in by the likes of Douglas Carswell nothing will change.

My feeling is that an SDP moment (back in the 1980s a group of 4 Labour MPs nearly destroyed the Labour Party by creating a new party) is fast approaching for the Conservative Party. The shift will either come in a breakaway by a group of Conservative MPs forming a new party or simply joining UKIP ... and anyone with conservative beliefs ought to help this process by doing anything other than voting for the Conservative Party.

A party which makes noises about British sovereignty at election time isn't a eurosceptic one, chaps.

Thoughts?

[Chippiewill]

I had a conservative MP come talk to my year group back in the autumn. I sat there bashing my head because in essence she said that she'd vote for what the party wants, not what her constituency wants. The system is a joke and people would get what they want if we didn't have parties. They'd just have to do a bit more fact finding in future rather than using dated stereotypes to choose their party (I'd hardly call the major players a choice anyway).

[Ajthedragon]

So what if he's towing the party line? These days people vote for the party, not the individual. I think it's highly unlikely there will be a break-away Conservative party in the near future.

[-:Undertaker:-]

So what if he's towing the party line?

Because as an MP he's expected to represent the people, not the chief whip.

These days people vote for the party, not the individual. I think it's highly unlikely there will be a break-away Conservative party in the near future.

Then you obviously haven't seen what the grassroots are saying - membership is in utter collapse and social conservatives leaving the party in droves this electoral term.

[jam666]

The problem is not the conservative party, the problem is the members. The political elite circa cameron & co are moving the party further to the left (at the moment id say its borderline centre) but its not a new occurance, the party started swinging to the left in the early 90's.

Grass root members (such as myself) are beside themselves and literally wondering where did it all go wrong?. The truth is all that remains of the traditional conservative party is the name as it has been taken over by centre-right conformists who simply wag their tale when asked.

If UKIP was called the Conservative party would it win a majority?, you bet it would as most members of the conservative party support just about all UKIP policys, so i hear you ask what is holding them back?. The answer lies in the name. Whilst most of us do support UKIP, I think it's more of a pride matter and a sense of hope that the party can get back to how it once was (thatcher era for example) which results in the reluctance to vote for UKIP over a conservative candidate of which the only way it can be solved is through time and the eventual decline of the conservative party.

I for example voted for a conservative candidate in the general election, but in the local council elections i voted for UKIP. The grass roots issue is REAL, a prime example of this is my local council ward where the two conservative councillors resigned and ran as independents at the election which resulted in their huge proportion of the vote being split between them, the newly appointed conservative candidate and the UKIP candidate (of whom i voted for). The result? 2 newly elected labour councillors in a ward thats being conservative held for decades.

The grass root support is falling apart and very little can be done if anything at all to resolve it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The problem is not the conservative party, the problem is the members. The political elite circa cameron & co are moving the party further to the left (at the moment id say its borderline centre) but its not a new occurance, the party started swinging to the left in the early 90's.

Grass root members (such as myself) are beside themselves and literally wondering where did it all go wrong?. The truth is all that remains of the traditional conservative party is the name as it has been taken over by centre-right conformists who simply wag their tale when asked.

If UKIP was called the Conservative party would it win a majority?, you bet it would as most members of the conservative party support just about all UKIP policys, so i hear you ask what is holding them back?. The answer lies in the name. Whilst most of us do support UKIP, I think it's more of a pride matter and a sense of hope that the party can get back to how it once was (thatcher era for example) which results in the reluctance to vote for UKIP over a conservative candidate of which the only way it can be solved is through time and the eventual decline of the conservative party.

I for example voted for a conservative candidate in the general election, but in the local council elections i voted for UKIP. The grass roots issue is REAL, a prime example of this is my local council ward where the two conservative councillors resigned and ran as independents at the election which resulted in their huge proportion of the vote being split between them, the newly appointed conservative candidate and the UKIP candidate (of whom i voted for). The result? 2 newly elected labour councillors in a ward thats being conservative held for decades.

The grass root support is falling apart and very little can be done if anything at all to resolve it.

I actually think a party without the word 'conservative' in the title would do much better, look at UKIP for example - it manages to pull in both Conservatives, Labour supporters and Liberal Democrats. In many places around this country, my own parliamentary seat included, anything with the name 'Conservative' within it hasn't a cats hell of chance of ever winning these seats. A new right wing party or even UKIP I think would be able to sweep seats in both the countryside and the towns up and down the country.

But the problem is that people are locked in the mindset of 'I cant vote UKIP even though I want to because it will let X back in' - and to that I ask, what difference does it make anyway? the only way you can get any real change in this country and allow a new party to rise is if one of the two main parties collapses as a result of not winning elections and thats exactly what we ought to do with the awful Conservative Party.

As we see with AJ though, anything that dares threaten 'the party'as opposed to the country, which he should be worried about, he views as a bigger threat.