Leak! What the official government is saying.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have just come across this document that John Redwood MP has put up on his blog today, and it's a letter between civil servants discussing our membership of the European Union. I think you'll find it very interesting, if not rather sinister.

I've highlighted the parts which I find rather revealing and of interest.

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2012/12...really-saying/

Leak! What the official government is saying.

John Redwood MP]By johnredwood | Published: December 17, 2012

I have come across this letter from Dr Roy Spendlove to his opposite number in the Foreign Office, Marc Notte

Dear Marc,

In my capacity as Head of Special Projects I find developing and preserving good relations with our partners in the EU is fundamental to the work we do. As you will appreciate, we so often need EU permission to go ahead with projects. We may need consent to suspend state aid rules, we may need a waiver on EU competition rules, we may need understanding over changes to specially designated EU planning zones, we may need access to EU money and we may need to co-operate with other countries and EU companies to bring our task to fruition. The EU does now lay down much of our environmental, industrial , trade and energy policies, as well as of course maintaining its lead role in fishing and farming. We should keep stressing how crucial EU trade is to our wellbeing.

I am finding in recent months that it is more difficult now to gain consent and to preserve the necessary friendly relations with continental colleagues, owing to the new aggressive Eurosceptic tone coming from some parts of the government. We look to the Foriegn Office to do more to stress to Ministers the need to preserve and foster good relations. We do not wish to lose our reputation as a better European, which was much cultivated by the previous government. Their approach of going along with most of the EU plans for new laws and further integration helped a great deal. Their realism over open borders, over the Treaties of Nice, Amsterdam and Lisbon, and their welcome for EU legislation in areas a diverse as the environment and the finance sector got over some of the damage done to our relationships by the rows over the Euro after Maastricht.

Today my opposite numbers in France and Germany express concern that the UK has for the first time refused to join in a new Treaty at all, preventing the rest of the EU from using the EU framework for the Fiscal Treaty they are planning. Whilst they can get round this problem, it is a legal nuisance for them that they have not faced before. They are unhappy about the way the UK government places the concerns of the City of London above the need for better centralised banking controls through the ECB and the European Banking Agency. They are particularly unhappy about the UK’s refusal to assist with the new bail out funds needed by the poorer EU countries. The Germans have some more sympathy with the UK’s refusal to counteance any increase in the EU budget, but this is causing considerable antagonism amongst the majority of member states. There are worries now that the UK is moving away from proper observance of the EU climate and energy policies with its new emphasis on carbon based gas. There is relief that the UK is still accepting the common borders, a crucial part of the whole move towards greater union.

I am writing to make sure you are aware of this rising tide of discontent with the UK in the EU. We look to the FCO to steady the position. Could you perhaps get Foreign Office Ministers to make speeches reaffirming the importance of our EU membership, and mitigating the attacks upon the EU position that some see in recent decisions and positions adopted by the Coalition government? I appreciate that the Foreign Secretary always used to confirm that membership of the EU is in the UK’s national interest. Today the Prime Minister has changed this position to the much more alarming statement that the UK needs a new relationship with the EU. It is most important to make sure the FCO does not seek a major renegotiation before the next General Election. This would be especially destabilising, threatening to destroy the good work we have all put in over the last decade to build new bridges to Europe and to become good Europeans. Whilst we of course remain strictly neutral on political matters, we do need to plan for the possible return of a Labour government as UKIP claims to be able to stop the Conservatives getting a majority. It is important that such a replacement government reverses the policy of seeking a new relationship and abandons ideas of opting out and loosening ties. Current Labour policy is more committed to our European membership.

Yours ever

Roy

Now when we've said that the EU now makes most of our laws and how membership of the European Union means irreversible and continuous transfer of powers to an EU level, do people understand? it's staring us here right in the face. And worse still, here is the civil service actually issuing orders for ministers to go out and makes claims about the EU and what tactics to use in order to achieve this (see the highlighted part mentioning trade claims) - ie, to scare the British people away from the exit door. It's also telling how the mention of UKIP and it's rise confirms one thing - they're now afraid that their project is in danger of being rejected by the public, something they've sought to avoid for decades.

I find this document remarkable, and wonder what you make of it? thoughts?

[Lee]

Show Hide

I have just come across this document that John Redwood MP has put up on his blog today, and it's a letter between civil servants discussing our membership of the European Union. I think you'll find it very interesting, if not rather sinister.

I've highlighted the parts which I find rather revealing and of interest.

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2012/12...really-saying/

Leak! What the official government is saying.



Now when we've said that the EU now makes most of our laws and how membership of the European Union means irreversible and continuous transfer of powers to an EU level, do people understand? it's staring us here right in the face. And worse still, here is the civil service actually issuing orders for ministers to go out and makes claims about the EU and what tactics to use in order to achieve this (see the highlighted part mentioning trade claims) - ie, to scare the British people away from the exit door. It's also telling how the mention of UKIP and it's rise confirms one thing - they're now afraid that their project is in danger of being rejected by the public, something they've sought to avoid for decades.

I find this document remarkable, and wonder what you make of it? thoughts?

Is this going to be all over the news that he has leaked this and hes gunna lose his job or am I misunderstanding leaked?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Show Hide

Is this going to be all over the news that he has leaked this and hes gunna lose his job or am I misunderstanding leaked?

Our media will barely ever report on important revealing things like this, as with anything if you want to get to the bottom of it then you have to look below the surface - that's the beauty and usefulness of the internet. The media simply cover the surface or something thats totally untrue, and it applies to the BBC, ITN, Sky, the Daily Mail, the Guardian, the Express, the Telegraph and so on and so on. As for Redwood, I don't know how he's got it - but he's probably been passed it so he's safe.

Believe me, if some of the documents and quotes on this subject of European integration over the past 30 years were broadcast on tea time news then we'd be out the following morning. When I first came across some of them in reading and the stuff thats gone on, I was literally shaking my head in disbelief.

[mrwoooooooo]

3mentions of it on twitter, must be really important news

[-:Undertaker:-]

3mentions of it on twitter, must be really important news

Oh grow up, since when was something being splashed all over the news making it important? the likes of One Direction, Justin Bieber trend on Twitter and on the news we have stories running for a whole week about some cabinet minister calling an officer a 'pleb' or the Ozzie PM falling over - meanwhile we have documents such as this being released and ignored, we have the debt climbing millions every day, we have US drone bombings over Pakistan/Yemen/Somalia and Afghanistan...... and all you can do to justify it 'not being important' is that it's hardly mentioned on Twitter.

And we wonder why we're in such a mess (or at least some of us do, thankfully). Astounding ignorance, does something need a BBC logo on it or a certain number of Twitter mentions for you to take any interest or notice regardless of the importance of a story?

[mrwoooooooo]

Oh grow up, since when was something being splashed all over the news making it important? the likes of One Direction, Justin Bieber trend on Twitter and on the news we have stories running for a whole week about some cabinet minister calling an officer a 'pleb' or the Ozzie PM falling over - meanwhile we have documents such as this being released and ignored, we have the debt climbing millions every day, we have US drone bombings over Pakistan/Yemen/Somalia and Afghanistan...... and all you can do to justify it 'not being important' is that it's hardly mentioned on Twitter.

And we wonder why we're in such a mess (or at least some of us do, thankfully). Astounding ignorance, does something need a BBC logo on it or a certain number of Twitter mentions for you to take any interest or notice regardless of the importance of a story?

obviously not that important if no-one cares about it apart from you

[-:Undertaker:-]

obviously not that important if no-one cares about it apart from you

And how have you established this? have you conducted a survey? no, all you've done is taken a look on Twitter (the home of Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaja and One Direction) and stated that nobody cares. Will a small blog have massive coverage? no, it won't will it.

But you obviously don't care where the majority of our laws come from, so turn your mind back to Twitter and go worry about District 3 or something. When I posted this thread I expected intelligent replies from intelligent people as it's aimed at them, not anybody else.

[xxMATTGxx]

And how have you established this? have you conducted a survey? no, all you've done is taken a look on Twitter (the home of Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaja and One Direction) and stated that nobody cares. Will a small blog have massive coverage? no, it won't will it.

But you obviously don't care where the majority of our laws come from, so turn your mind back to Twitter and worry about District 3 or something.

Twitter is not just about Justin Bieber, One Direction and Nicki. For this to get more attention if it's important and considered a "leak" then social media is what sends it out to 1,000's of people and let's more people informed about it.

Social media is what makes people interested in such news and if it isn't on one of those networks or even on one of the big news sites then sure no one is going to have a clue what this is or even come across it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Twitter is not just about Justin Bieber, One Direction and Nicki. For this to get more attention if it's important and considered a "leak" then social media is what sends it out to 1,000's of people and let's more people informed about it.

Twitter is massively geared towards the entertainment industry, it's certainly not geared towards discussion of European integration, the Foreign Office, the blog of John Redwood MP or the civil service now, is it? I thought we had people on this forum who did A Levels or degrees, the kind of people who should surely know that historical facts and data usually don't come from BBC News, Twitter or any other chat room.

Lord give me strength.

[xxMATTGxx]

Twitter is massively geared towards the entertainment industry, it's certainly geared towards discussion of European integration, the Foreign Office, the blog of John Redwood MP or the civil service now, is it? I thought we had people on this forum who did A Levels or degrees, who should surely know that historical facts and data usually don't come from BBC News, Twitter or any other chat room.

Lord give me strength.

Lord give you strength indeed with your AMAZING posts that everyone really cares about on this forum :rolleyes:. You make twitter what you want to make it, it's not just about the bloody entertainment industry. Loads of news has been shared via social media before it has even hit sites such as the BBC. If it's that important than it's probably a good idea for you to share it via social media and get others to share it to make people aware of it. That's all I am saying.