The 'German UKIP' is launched - Alternative For Germany (AFG) to be launched

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Germany.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-the-euro.html

Eurosceptic party aims to take on Angela Merkel in Germany

A new Eurosceptic party opposed to the bail-out of the single currency will be launched in Germany next week, with the aim of challenging Angela Merkel at national elections later this year.

Bernd Lucke: the economics professor setting up the new party which 26% of Germans would consider voting for.

Led by an economist who has described attempts to rescue the euro as a "fiasco" and the bail-out of Greece as an "offence under the trade descriptions act", the new movement has attracted prominent supporters including Hans-Olaf Henkel, the former president of the German equivalent of the CBI.

Alternative for Germany is calling for a break-up of the eurozone and a return either to national currencies or a smaller eurozone area. One proposal is for Austria, Germany, Finland and the Netherlands, among the healthiest economies in the eurozone, to quit the euro and create their own currency union.

The movement's founder, Bernd Lucke, a professor of macroeconomics at the University of Hamburg and a former World Bank adviser, said: "The current so-called euro-rescue policy is focused on short-term interests, especially the banks."

Bailed-out countries should be allowed to go bankrupt and bond investors should pay the costs, he told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ), Germany's leading Conservative newspaper.

Germany has no significant Euro-sceptic party on a national scale, but there are increasing signs of public discontent with the cost of saving the euro. A Eurosceptic party called the Free Voters made inroads in Bavaria's regional elections, while a book by Thilo Sarrazin, which argued that Germany was sacrificing its national interest to atone for its guilt over the Holocaust, was a summer bestseller.

Alternative for Germany has greater potential to unsettle Mrs Merkel than previous Eurosceptic groups because of the clout of its supporters. The new party is being backed by several academics including a group of professors who brought an unsuccessful legal action against the German government over the rescue of Greece. It is also supported by Konrad Adam, a former editor of the FAZ. Mr Henkel, a former president of the Federation of German Industries, has gone from being a euro-supporter to calling for a breakaway northern currency.

The new party will say that countries should not be allowed to take on the debts of other eurozone members.

The party will be launched next Monday in the town of Oberursel, north of Frankfurt, while its founding convention is planned for next month in Berlin. It must gather hundreds of signatures to be allowed to take part in Germany's federal elections, in September.

The mainstream German parties have been reluctant to comment on the formation of a new party. Florian Toncar, vice-chairman of the parliamentary Free Democrats, the junior partner in the ruling coalition, warned: "A break-up of the euro would be politically and economically extremely expensive."

At first glance, Bernd Lucke seems an unlikely character to be causing sleepless nights for the high command of the European Union.

Boyish-looking, softly-spoken and an economics professor, he is almost unheard of outside of his homeland, and far from a household name even within Germany.

In coming months, though, the mild-mannered academic from Hamburg may prove a far greater threat to the future of the European project than many more strident Euro-sceptics.

The 50-year-old’s breakaway political party is the first to challenge the previously unassailable orthodoxy that Germany must stay in the eurozone. And his newly-formed movement, the Alternative For Germany, is hoping in general elections this September to tap into the 25 per cent of voters who say they could envisage Germany without the euro.

Continued via link above...

Always an uphill battle of course in a very difficult electoral system (like ours) - but the event itself is more interesting considering that Germany (and the Germany peope included) has for long felt its need to stick by the European project out of its war guilt ridden past.

Considering it's in the embryonic stage, 26% would consider voting for it already and it already has 5,000 members - it's not off to a bad start in a notoriously tightly controlled and sceptical German electoral system.

Thoughts?

[AgnesIO]

26% would consider voting? I imagine the vast majority of the population would consider going on holiday to Italy, it doesn't mean that same proportion actually will!

How amusing that would be though, the country that wanted the eurozone so much, get rid of it. It simply wouldn't make sense. Why on earth would Europe destroy its position of having such a big (biggest?) economy in the world?

No eurozone, no reserve currency - less power.

[-:Undertaker:-]

26% would consider voting? I imagine the vast majority of the population would consider going on holiday to Italy, it doesn't mean that same proportion actually will!

How amusing that would be though, the country that wanted the eurozone so much, get rid of it. It simply wouldn't make sense. Why on earth would Europe destroy its position of having such a big (biggest?) economy in the world?

No eurozone, no reserve currency - less power.

The Deutsche Mark was also a world reserve currency before it was abolished, and a currency that had an amazing reputation as the German Central Bank has always been strict with monetary policy from the German experience with the Weimar Republic.

For the Euro to survive, two things need to happen; full economic union which would mean permanent and never ending German transfers of money from Germany to southern Europe (ie for example, the way London transfers to other parts of the UK) and for an economic union that I explained to work it would require political union - in other words, the end of Germany as a nation state.

Do you think any of these will be successful without force being used? I certainly don't. The other choice is, as explained, the dissolution of the Euro and a return to national currencies. The idea that Germany is successful and economically powerful because of the Euro is nonsense.

[AgnesIO]

The Deutsche Mark was also a world reserve currency before it was abolished, and a currency that had an amazing reputation as the German Central Bank has always been strict with monetary policy from the German experience with the Weimar Republic.

For the Euro to survive, two things need to happen; full economic union which would mean permanent and never ending German transfers of money from Germany to southern Europe (ie for example, the way London transfers to other parts of the UK) and for an economic union that I explained to work it would require political union - in other words, the end of Germany as a nation state.

Do you think any of these will be successful without force being used? I certainly don't. The other choice is, as explained, the dissolution of the Euro and a return to national currencies. The idea that Germany is successful and economically powerful because of the Euro is nonsense.

The Deutsche Mark was not as used as the Euro is now though (about 15% of the reserves before the euro were the Deutsche Mark, whilst give or take 24% of the reserves now are the euro). I think if the euro can get out of the current crisis it can definitely survive - it was (at least seen as) a success before the crisis - although admittedly the present crisis HAS shown its flaws.

It isn't the euros fault, it's the countries inside the euro's fault.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The Deutsche Mark was not as used as the Euro is now though (about 15% of the reserves before the euro were the Deutsche Mark, whilst give or take 24% of the reserves now are the euro). I think if the euro can get out of the current crisis it can definitely survive - it was (at least seen as) a success before the crisis - although admittedly the present crisis HAS shown its flaws.

Well of course the Euro has a higher reserve currency % of world total, as the Euro is made up from seventeen currencies as opposed to one. As for the Euro being seen as a success before the crisis, maybe thats true of the BBC - but many economists were warning years beforehand of the crisis that the Euro was causing in southern Europe with youth unemployment and tourism; many noticed after the Euro for example in Spain that with the introduction of the Euro, everything became more expensive in Spain and thus Iberian industry couldn't compete like it used to with France/Germany.

It isn't the euros fault, it's the countries inside the euro's fault.

Really? then why is the crisis focused in Eurozone countries as opposed to non-Eurozone countries? it's simple, the Euro. I'm not saying we here are safe at all, nor is the rest of the world - but we for example have the leverage were we can control our own exchange rate via the Central Bank which many would argue helps us export our way out of recession, or at least aid that recovery. Spain, Portugal, Italy and the other countries are trapped in a currency which they are totally not compatible with - unless large permanent transfers of money are started from northern Europe into southern Europe (as for example southern England to the rest of the United Kingdom - a true monetary and economic union).

You only have to check through Better Off Out, Bruges Group, CPS, Business For Sterling and UKIP documents to see this was predicted years ago.

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content...theysaidit.pdf

That's a good start, quotes'n all. Everything they (backers of monetary union) said about the Euro has proven to be wrong.

[AgnesIO]

Well of course the Euro has a higher reserve currency % of world total, as the Euro is made up from seventeen currencies as opposed to one.

Indeed, but if other countries outside are using it as a reserve currency there is a reason for that.

As for the Euro being seen as a success before the crisis, maybe thats true of the BBC - but many economists were warning years beforehand of the crisis that the Euro was causing in southern Europe with youth unemployment and tourism; many noticed after the Euro for example in Spain that with the introduction of the Euro, everything became more expensive in Spain and thus Iberian industry couldn't compete like it used to with France/Germany.

Damn right about Spain - but it also helped the property industry boom! It then, of course, collapsed (believe me, I know all too well about that ;l). Would it be worth me pointing out that PRIOR to the euro, Spain also suffered terrible unemployment (general, not youth)? It is ever so slightly higher now than it was - but not drastically higher. Clearly the present crisis is hugely problematic, but during the euro Spain also saw its LOWEST youth unemployment rates in over 30 years!

Really? then why is the crisis focused in Eurozone countries as opposed to non-Eurozone countries? it's simple, the Euro. I'm not saying we here are safe at all, nor is the rest of the world - but we for example have the leverage were we can control our own exchange rate via the Central Bank which many would argue helps us export our way out of recession, or at least aid that recovery. Spain, Portugal, Italy and the other countries are trapped in a currency which they are totally not compatible with - unless large permanent transfers of money are started from northern Europe into southern Europe (as for example southern England to the rest of the United Kingdom - a true monetary and economic union)

Because it is the eurozone countries that were dodgy before they even joined - and you know it! Greece had hugely dodgy books when they joined - the fact is these countries should have been included in such a currency because they were so bent beforehand. The reason the euro is struggling is because the countries were not ready to join. That isn't the euros fault, it is the stupid countries fault!

And of course, but would you really want the PIGS to continue simply depressing their currencies to get out of their problems? We all know it, if they had control of their policies they would make the wrong short-term decisions, as ultimately that is what keeps a party in government.

You only have to check through Better Off Out, Bruges Group, CPS, Business For Sterling and UKIP documents to see this was predicted years ago.

In bold (good of me isn't it, not getting tokens for that mass ;l :L)

[Teabags]

Without Germany, really can't see the EU surviving at all.
Can't see why Germany wouldn't want to stay in the EU, they just appear to be funding every bailout and are being consistently restricted by EU law.

But Angela Merkel has done well for over a decade for Germany, so I can't see her being out-voted just yet.
Glad she can stand up to Putin, kgb assassination imminent.

[GommeInc]

There are a lot of Germans who are deeply unhappy about the EU and the Eurozone, so it only seemed a matter of time before a huge eurospectic party would surface. I wouldn't want to live in a country that seems forced to bail out countries which have limited economic interests.

Quite a lot of European countries that are in a mess are countries which couldn't give a damn about economics beyond their own borders and are being forced to pay out to support other countries when their only historic interests are within their own country. Italy and Spain have never been true economic powerhouses, yet the Eurozone and the EU in general demand they be productive, which goes against their cultural heritage as being laid back and slow paced, being "inward thinking".

[Ardemax]

A rising right-wing party in Germany angered by finances?

Just kidding. I'm sure they're a lovely bunch of people.