How widespread is Islamic fundamentalism in Western Europe?

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...1-f0feafdd1394

How widespread is Islamic fundamentalism in Western Europe?

One narrative about Muslim immigrants in Europe is that only a relatively small proportion holds views that are sometimes labeled as “fundamentalist.” Ruud Koopmans from the Wissenschaftszentrum in Berlin argues that this perspective is incorrect. He conducted a telephone survey of 9,000 respondents in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, France, Austria, and Sweden and interviewed both Turkish and Moroccan immigrants as well as a comparison group of Christians.

His first finding is that majorities of Muslim immigrants believe that there is only one interpretation of the Koran possible to which every Muslim should stick (75 percent), and that religious rules are more important than the laws of the country in which they live (65 percent). Moreover, these views are as widespread among younger Muslims as among older generations.

He then looks at hostility toward out-groups. Fifty-eight percent do not want homosexual friends, 45 percent think that Jews cannot be trusted, and 54 percent believe that the West is out to destroy Muslim culture. Among Christians, 23 percent believe that Muslims are out to destroy Western culture. Koopmans says these results hold when you control for the varying socio-economic characteristics of these groups (although the analyses are not presented).

Religious fundamentalism is the strongest correlate of out-group hostility both among Muslims and Christians. Fundamentalism here is taken to mean beliefs that believers should return to unchangeable rules from the past, that the Bible/Koran should be taken literally, and that religious rules are more important than secular laws. Although Muslims are more likely to be fundamentalist and hostile toward out-groups than Christians, there are many more Christians in these countries. So, the overall numbers of Christians who feel hostile toward Muslims still vastly outnumber the Muslims who believe the West is out to destroy Muslim culture. This accounts for the success of extremist parties in many of the countries in which the survey was conducted. It may be that Muslim perceptions are partially a response to this but we can’t tell. (The study, as far as I can tell, has little to say about the sources of these attitudes).

This study is bound to attract ample media attention (it already has) and will be seen as a verification for political parties with extreme views, such as Geert Wilders’s PVV in the Netherlands. This is not an issue per se, facts are facts, however uncomfortable they may be, and from what I can tell, this is a professional survey (technical report here) done by a reputable academic scholar. Indeed, the survey was conducted in 2008, and the researchers appear to have waited until now to publicize these findings. Nevertheless, I wished that the publication of a sensitive survey like this would be partnered with a bit more information. For example, I could not even track down country-specific marginals for the main survey questions and key analyses in the article come without tables or graphs.

Still, the finding that 54 percent of Muslims in these six Western European countries believe that the West is out to destroy Muslim culture can hardly be ignored. A Dutch newspaper, Trouw, cites Arabist Jan Jaap de Ruiter who argues that Muslims have a tendency to give “socially desirable” answers to survey questions. Even if this is true, I’d still be very concerned that the apparent socially desirable answer is that Jews should not be trusted and that the West is out to get Muslims. An added concern is the absence of generational differences in the survey responses; suggesting that this is not an issue that is likely to go away any time soon.

Oh dear. Well this certainly isn't good news for the delusional idiots who repeat over and over again that these sorts of views are only from a 'small minority' and that Islam is as just as moderate as Christianity. Delusional bullcrap and he's yet another survey that proves it.

I've always struggled to understand why the left are so supportive of mass immigration from Islamic countries when the people they are bringing in are so opposed to liberal/left wing views such as women's rights, gay rights and so on. It's exactly why i've always wanted to see the likes of Stonewall holding a march through Tower Hamlets - then when it all kicks off, who would the talking heads side with? They'd internally combust from the confusion of who to support. Of course Stonewall and groups like that won't do such a thing as they know what would happen, instead they like to hound old B&B owners who are Christian.

Of course all muslims aren't radical. But compared with other religious groups, they're much more radical. That's a fact. So can we all stop pretending otherwise? Thanks.

Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

Ask a group of immigrants in poor areas (guest-worker era immigrants, as noted in the actual study) whether they feel that their culture is threatened and they respond "yes" more than settled majorities whose beliefs openly dictate the law of the land? Surely not!

Furthermore 9000 people is not an indication of the population of Europe, and the study very openly states that they hand-picked people who were originally from certain territories which hugely skews the stats to make it look like there are actually a lot more people out there with these views than actually exist. They also conveniently don't publish the results to the questions on pages 50 and 51 about being discriminated against, which obviously fuel such beliefs - or in fact any of the other 115 questions, just the inflammatory ones. It's a good idea to read through these studies and see what's actually involved.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I love it when people reply to polls they don't like with 'well thats small sample size' even though it's widely accepted that a poll size of 1,000 has something like a small margin of error of 3% odd - 9,000 for a sample size is huge meaning the margin of error will be even smaller. So saying that 9,000 isn't representative of a few million simply isn't true - it is representative whether you like the poll findings or not.

Here's another poll on the subject of Islam and homosexuality -
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/m...-homosexuality

Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance towards homosexual acts compared to their counterparts in France and Germany, according to a survey published today.

The Gallup poll features the results of telephone and face-to-face interviews with Muslims and non-Muslims in the UK, France and Germany and is designed to measure global attitudes towards people from different faith traditions.

It shows that British Muslims hold more conservative opinions towards homosexual acts, abortion, viewing pornography, suicide and sex outside marriage than European Muslims, polling markedly lower when asked if they believed these things were morally acceptable.

The most dramatic contrast was found in attitudes towards homosexuality. None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable. 1,001 non-Muslim Britons were interviewed.

By comparison, 35% of French Muslims found homosexual acts to be acceptable. A question on pornography also elicited different reactions, with French and German Muslims more likely than British Muslims to believe that watching or reading pornography was morally acceptable.

On the issue of sexual relations between unmarried men and women, general populations surveyed express similar views, with the majority believing it was acceptable. But the Muslim populations polled again reflected greater diversity on the matter. French Muslims ranked highest again, with 48% believing it was acceptable, followed by 27% of German Muslims responding favourably. British Muslims came last, with only 3% of those questioned personally believing that sex between unmarried men and women was moral. There was a similar outcome when asked for their views on extra-marital affairs.

There was an excellent documentary done a while back too on the rejection that gay muslims face by their families and local community in Britain due to Islamic attitudes towards homosexuality - you can find it on YouTube although I expect you'll still totally ignore common sense and continue to make claims as many do, that Islam is as soft in the west as Christianity and other religions are.

But there you go.

[FlyingJesus]

I didn't claim that at all, I was stating that the actual number of people with these beliefs is small enough proportionally to not be the problem that you try telling us it is

[Kardan]

Sorry, what!? The majority of Muslims believe in Islam - well, I'm shocked.

[Ardemax]

I think the anti-gay sentiment rings true, certainly near to where I live. It's a very sad opinion to hold

I once asked a Muslim in my school if he would accept a blood transfusion from a gay person if he or one of his family members urgently needed one and he almost threw me to the floor for even suggesting such blasphemy I appreciate it's a one-off case, but he certainly didn't learn to hate like that from school.