New Zealand may vote on dropping Union flag

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nion-flag.html

New Zealand may vote on dropping Union flag

John Key would prefer to have silver fern as New Zealand's national flag, dropping the Union flag

John Key proposes to change the current New Zealand flag to incorporate a silver fern

John Key, the New Zealand prime minister, has raised the prospect of a referendum to change the country's national flag, which would include abolishing the Union flag from its design.

Taking up a debate that has simmered for years, Mr Key admitted that he would like to see a very different national ensign, favouring instead a symbol drawn from New Zealand's native flora.

"My own personal view is that the silver fern is the right way to go," Mr Key said.

"In my view, the silver fern is something which is applied to our greatest sporting teams.

"It has international recognition and cachet.

"I think it's part of the modern new look of New Zealand."

Mr Key added that the New Zealand flag sometimes gets confused with the Australian flag in international circles.

He said he would be discussing the issue of a referendum with senior ministers.

A plebiscite would offer New Zealanders the choice of the current flag or an alternative chosen by the government, he said.

He believed the public was probably split 50-50 on the subject.

The Union flag has featured prominently in the top left corner of both the New Zealand and Australian flags for more than a century.

Approved by King Edward VII in 1902, the New Zealand ensign also shows four stars of the Southern Cross in red with white outlines, on a blue background.

Any move to abolish the existing flag will stir deep controversy, especially among former servicemen.

Many insist that it must be retained in honour of those wartime personnel who died under its colours, and to raise the issue in the year marking the centenary of the outbreak of World War I could be regarded as particularly insensitive.

John Banks, leader of the Act Party, which supports Mr Key's minority government in power, said: "Men fought under that flag and sacrificed their lives in many war campaigns and, for me, I'm a bit old-fashioned.

"I don't want the name of the country changed, the flag changed, and God save the Queen."

But support for change will come from across a broad spectrum.

Helen Clark, the former Labour prime minister, favours keeping the Southern Cross while removing the Union Jack.

Meanwhile, Hone Harawira, leader of the Maori nationalist Mana Party, is calling for a Maori sovereignty motif.

Taking things further, Green party co-leader Russel Norman is not only happy to change the flag, but is also pressing for New Zealand to become a republic.

The move is perhaps the more surprising coming from Mr Key, who has made no secret of his royalist credentials.

In September last year, he and his family were accorded the rare privilege of being invited to spend a weekend with the Queen at Balmoral.

What a disagrace, i'm fully with the servicemen on this. Many New Zealanders died under that flag for the British Empire and the sovereignty and liberty of New Zealand. As entitled as they are to do whatever they want with their flag, it'd be a huge shame to see such an iconic flag ripped of such a fundamental part of it and replaced with what is essentially a rugby icon.

But i'm optimistic. In Australia in the 1990s they were having these kinds of debates, and it looked pretty much certain that Australia was about to drop it's flag and become a republic too. Thankfully though, Australia at the time had a real patriotic conservative government which mounted a fierce campaign which stood up for the heritage of Australia and they won the referendum on retaining the monarchy and the flag has never been more popular since John Howard brought in his Australia Day public holiday.

The good thing about this New Zealander debate is that those wanting to change the flag seem divided on the issue which will give the pro-New Zealand flag side a huge advantage in any referendum campaign. Good luck to them although it remains to be seen if a referendum will even happen considering how this has been talked about for years and years.

The only evidence of any polling (which I presume is scientific) on the issue is this from Wikipedia:

A poll of public opinion 2009 suggested that 25% supported changing the design of the flag, whilst 62% were opposed.

Thoughts?

[dbgtz]

Kind of makes sense why they would, especially since it could change for us should Scotland become independent (though not likely).

[xxMATTGxx]

Kind of makes sense why they would, especially since it could change for us should Scotland become independent (though not likely).

Wasn't it reported that the UK flag would be staying as it is regardless if Scotland becomes independent or not?

[Sloths]

Saw this on news last night. I will seriously like move out the country if they change the flag to the stupid rugby/sports based one, yes go the all blacks and the silver ferns but not everyone are avid sports fans.. If a referendum actually happens I'll be voting against changing. We're still connected to the British and I don't see why they would consider changing it even though we are a separate country we still follow the queen and the royal family.

[FlyingJesus]

I don't really see the problem, flags change all the time especially military ones so it wouldn't in any way dishonour ex-soldiers just like it didn't dishonour anyone in the US Navy (other than the artist involved perhaps) when they adopted this hilarious new naval jack

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't really see the problem, flags change all the time especially military ones so it wouldn't in any way dishonour ex-soldiers just like it didn't dishonour anyone in the US Navy (other than the artist involved perhaps) when they adopted this hilarious new naval jack

Because when a flag generations of your family have died under and rallied around is threatened, then you do feel strongly about it.

Flags stand for a lot, they're a lot more than a piece of cloth. Symbolic of culture, politics and everything that embodies a people.

[The Don]

Because when a flag generations of your family have died under and rallied around is threatened, then you do feel strongly about it.

Flags stand for a lot, they're a lot more than a piece of cloth. Symbolic of culture, politics and everything that embodies a people.

Bit of an exaggeration, no?

[FlyingJesus]

And if that's the sentiment of the country then the referendum would come to nothing anyway

[-:Undertaker:-]

Bit of an exaggeration, no?

No.

Why do you think one of the most symbolic photographs that were released for propaganda purposes after the fall of Berlin was the photograph of the Soviet Flag being raised above the ruined Reichstag? Why do you think that romantic pictures of land battles/sea battles included flags, often drawn with the sun shining on them against a darker background? Or that two of the most famous pictures of the Falklands war victory included the Union flag?

Flags matter.

[GommeInc]

So New Zealand is only famous for their rugby team? I'd be offended if that's all my Government thought of the country, to want to use that as the symbol on the flag Or at the very least label them stupid. It will probably not amount to anything, there doesn't seem to be much reason going from that article. Hot air, nothing else.