Does rape culture exist or is it a feminist fantasy?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Does rape culture exist or is it a feminist fantasy?

The definition of rape culture is a society in which rape is normalised and results in victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivialising rape and the denial of widespread rape. It is a feminist theory which is highly controversial but which has come to prominence on the internet in recent years due to movements on social sites such as tumblr as well as songs such as Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines which was even banned by a number of British universities.

But does rape culture exist in western society to you? Does rape culture even make sense? Is rape in our society viewed as something to be mocked or is it infact taken seriously by society as a whole? Does the feminist movement in pushing rape culture have a vendetta against straight, white, western men?

There are plenty of nifty prizes to be won within this forum and we have some new awards and prizes to be won in this forum and beyond. Focus on putting a good argument forward, try to be controversial and you'll be rewarded!

The debate is open to you.

[FlyingJesus]

Rape culture does exist but only within the American prison system - which is where the phrase was actually coined before feminists appropriated it to suit their victim complexes. Outside of that system society quite clearly views rape as among the worst things you can do to a person, even trumping murder, so quite clearly we do not in any way live in a culture that is pro-rape, and certainly not when females are the victims

[CaptainKilt]

However, there are several facets of life that would, in a sense, overlook at or thoughts or jokes around rape. Making jokes that allude to or even mention rape can all be examples of foster a rape culture. By allowing things like rape to be funny or used in a humour context you allow yourself to view something such as a rape as a joke or you normalize it. Thus creating a rape culture.

In regards to the alienation of white western males that the OP mentioned... The "Feminist movement" doesn't involve jut women. All and any individual can be a feminist or a part of the feminist movement. All feminism is is the desire for equal rights between all gender and non-gender identifying individuals regardless of what that gender or non-gender may be. (Now this is just one of many definitions however continues to be the most prominent and popular.)

[GommeInc]

Quite an interesting debate. University feminist groups are really deluded finding any excuse to assume a woman's liberty is being eroded by men, but outside of Universities it seems this culture that women are victims doesn't really exist.

Neo-feminists are incredibly dangerous, not to others but to themselves, using rape culture as a tool degrading not only themselves but the very crime they're worried about. For example, at my University there was an event called "50 Shades of Glitter" and women started saying it is a disgusting name hinting to sexual assault or degrading behaviour, despite it being a popular event and obviously the book which it shares only the name with involved a consenting woman wanting to experiment with S&M etc. Crying wolf despite no reason to do so!

Of course you should stamp out sexual harassment, but when you start suggesting this morally, physically and mentally destroying crime in conversation, you begin to degrade the crime itself. It's like bringing up Nazism or Hitler in a debate about eroding civil liberties - you're only making Nazism seem like it wasn't really as much as those millions of people who suffered directly or indirectly from it made it out to be. They make it seem like they were making a fuss about nothing. Discussing rape and desensitising people from it works from both sides, by crying rape when it isn't relevant to prove a point, to joking around about it.

As far as my experience goes, there is a line to be drawn between feminism and sexism as the two are not the same. Quite a lot of feminist activism is just female sexism in sheep clothing, by women who simply hate men or find any excuse to cry foul play despite no obvious intention or behaviour. I seem to notice a lot of these sorts of feminist suffer from general social anxiety and have openly admitted to, which in serious debates if they begin to lose tend to victimise themselves which results in acting repressed, which when talking to men usually results in sexist remarks. It's quite dangerous.

These "safe space" things that seem to pop-up are one thing I really do not like in principle, where groups in a "minority" have a space to discuss matters, despite it really just being segregation harvesting hate towards this apparent "majority" and causing unnecessary conflict. I don't think these help at all either. If you're mixing with your own kind, how to expect integration and sharing views developing understanding? You're just harvesting hate where it is unwanted.

If women want to be treated fairly or as equals, do not segregate yourselves from others and simply get involved as it only boosts understanding from these apparently evil men. How can your voices be heard if you shut it behind a closed door away from those who ought to hear it? It's madness.

I think anyone with sense ignores this concept of rape culture, as it doesn't exist and is used by idiots to make a point which they can't even find. Blurred Lines isn't about rape - unless you make mountains out of mole hills, take 1 + 1 and make 3, and any other metaphor for thinking too much by blurring the lines of reality and fiction.

[FlyingJesus]

However, there are several facets of life that would, in a sense, overlook at or thoughts or jokes around rape. Making jokes that allude to or even mention rape can all be examples of foster a rape culture. By allowing things like rape to be funny or used in a humour context you allow yourself to view something such as a rape as a joke or you normalize it. Thus creating a rape culture.

By that logic we live in an epidemic murder culture and everyone supports murder, because the prevalence of people saying "I'll kill you if..." or "I'd kill for..." and the such likes is far greater than people making rape jokes, which society at large sees as disgusting and unwarranted.

As for feminism being about equality, I tend to look at what a movement does rather than just what it says

[Joe]

However, there are several facets of life that would, in a sense, overlook at or thoughts or jokes around rape. Making jokes that allude to or even mention rape can all be examples of foster a rape culture. By allowing things like rape to be funny or used in a humour context you allow yourself to view something such as a rape as a joke or you normalize it. Thus creating a rape culture.

I disagree entirely. Comedy is, most of the time, used as a medium to make fun of some of the things that scare you or worry you about life, and I think rape is one of these things. Just because I hear a joke about rape or make one myself, doesn't mean I, in any way, condone nor agree with it. It in no way normalises it, in fact I think hearing a joke about it and therefore considering it acceptable is a human fault on their part, or even a poor upbringing.

I'm not part of a rape culture just because I've made a joke about it. There's no such thing as a rape culture in my opinion, just the world a messed up place because the people in it have "blurred lines" between what's right and what's wrong. I can make a joke about rape and still hate even the slightest thought about it, because my head's in the right place and my morals are set in the stone.

Of course you should stamp out sexual harassment, but when you start suggesting this morally, physically and mentally destroying crime in conversation, you begin to degrade the crime itself.

I really do agree with you. For example, using something you’ve mentioned, a few people at my college discussed Fifty Shades when it came out as degrading and almost promoting this rape culture. What I don’t fully understand that what happens if a female (or anyone for that matter, only using a female because of the people who said it originally) want’s to experiment with different things sexually and, therefore, getting themselves into situations such as the subject of the Fifty Shades trilogy. That is not rape. Without going into too much graphic detail we all know that the style of experimentation promotes leadership and command.

Just to add to the debate too, the more things are targeted as part of a rape culture the easier it gets to do, because people become used to it and, although deluded, are susceptible to the media, and the more they hear the word “rape” the more interested they get.

[FlyingJesus]

Fifty Shades is absolutely about a series of rapes, it completely ignores all of the safeguards of genuine BDSM relationships and focuses entirely on power play and coercion which is 100% not what that lifestyle is supposed to be about. BDSM as a whole is not rape behaviour, but the things taking place in Fifty Shades of Grey certainly are

[CaptainKilt]

It's interesting that you both deny a Rape Culture yet both think jokes about rape are ok. (That's what I've understood anyways, please do correct me if I am wrong.) This in itself seems to foster a "Rape Culture" per say. What making a joke about rape does is trivialize it, this is inherently giving off the message that you are ok with rape enough to joke about it. This can be harmful not only for the idea of a rape culture existing but to victims of rape, sexual violence, or sexual assault by triggering harmful elements of their lives. This in itself signifies to those individuals that rape is something that can be joked about. That rape can be funny.

An interesting quote to better understand what exactly can and is commonly included within the idea of Rape Culture.

"Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable. Rather than viewing the culture of rape as a problem to change, people in a rape culture think about the persistence of rape as “just the way things are.” http://www.wavaw.ca/what-is-rape-culture/

Even the usage of the word rape for things other than sexual violence can be contributing to a rape culture. ie. Individuals playing sports, video games, or any other competition telling an another individual that they "will rape them" in the sense of destroy and crush. The usage of this word in those contexts is rape culture.

To address a specific point by @Joe; Just because you consider your morals to be right and to be of a right head space doesn't mean all others do. You can't apply concepts such as rape culture entirely to yourself because it does;t have to do with you. It has to do with society as a whole! Just something to think of when discussing these sort of topics.

[Inseriousity.]

An academic discussion about the term 'rape culture' does not perhaps do justice to the components of said title that Dan highlighted: victim blaming, sexual objectification etc. My first instinct to this question was 'no because rape culture is too strong. Rape is too horrendous a crime to be normalised' but that really ignores that the components that feminists use to define it are evident in society. Victim blaming and the sexual objectification of women, in particular, are normalised in lad culture and while it's wrong to say that's rape, it can lead to a culture where women are seen as second best rather than equals.

Rape culture, meh too strong (although brand management is an important tool activists need. They need to be controversial and simplify things down to soundbites to gain attention or generate debate). The components of "rape culture," maybe they're onto something there.

[Joe]

@CaptainKilt;

I wouldn't perhaps say that jokes about rape are okay, but neither will they make be flinch or question myself. I think its obvious we have a total difference of opinion in the way a rape culture is presented. You evidently believe it exists and I don't. My question is how does a rape culture come about without people being in the right head space with the correct morals?

You bring up my point about me considering I have the correct morals, maybe I generalised that a little too much and it sounded pretentious, apologies. I meant to specify that my morals about rape are in the right place: it's wrong, disgusting and horrific. I think even the mere possibility of a rape culture will always stem from the specific person and how deluded they are and how out of touch with reality they are.

My main problem with your point is the fact you mention so much about rape being mentioned anywhere will promote it. Going back to a previous point made by @FlyingJesus;, if rape works in this way, then surely other crimes such as murder are now a culture then, are they? With that mentality going through life, everything will be, and is, a culture in it's own way.