Panic stations in Whitehall over 'Out' campaign

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.sunnation.co.uk/panic-sta..._-Imageandlink

Panic stations in Whitehall over 'Out' campaign's strong start

Prime Minister Cameron is still yet to spell out what he is seeking in EU renegotiations

David Cameron’s key No.10 aides are begging top Tory donors to give a new pledge of loyalty to the Prime Minister’s renegotiation strategy and desire to stay in the EU, The Sun can reveal. Amid growing panic about the strong start made by the “Out” campaign, top money men are being asked to publicly back Downing Street’s approach – a stunt which No. 10 want to roll out in the coming weeks.

Concern about ‘bully boy tactics’

A multi-millionaire Conservative donor — who asked not to be be named — told The Sun: “I received a call from No. 10. They want to find people to sign up to a letter attacking the Vote Leave campaign. “I have always been a strong supporter of the party but am concerned about these bully boy tactics. “I wish they were spending more effort on getting a good EU deal than trying to scare long-standing Conservative supporters.”

Our revelation comes as a government insider reveals top Civil Service boss Jeremy Heywood told a meeting of senior Whitehall mandarins on Wednesday that the EU referendum is now a major headache for the government — bigger even than the upcoming round of spending cuts.

A Whitehall source said: “Heywood told us that the spending review isn’t the big thing this Parliament — Europe is the big thing this Parliament, and Europe is what Downing Street and the Cabinet Office is most worried about. “They’re rattled because the renegotiation isn’t convincing anybody.”

War of words

A furious war of words developed tonight between Downing Street and the campaign for Britain to quit the European Union. Dominic Cummings, Campaign Director of the pro-British independence “Vote Leave” campaign, said: “Cameron has given up asking for Treaty changes, he doesn’t have a credible renegotiation strategy and his team is starting to panic. “It is obvious to the public and businesses that the EU has fundamental problems and needs fundamental reform — the only way to force the politicians to do this is to Vote Leave.”

‘EU referendum is a priority’

A Downing Street source tried to play down the panic, saying: “Of course the EU referendum is a priority for this government. We spelt that out at the start of this government.” A referendum on EU membership has been promised by the PM before the end of 2017.

Literally all the 'In' campaign have is untrue scaremongering and nobody is buying that Cameron is set to renegotiate anything substantial at all. He's still yet to even spell out exactly what he wants to renegotiate, and any actual proper changes have been ruled out by the EU.

Given in the Scottish referendum Whitehall managed to push the pro-independence vote up from the 28% mark to the final 45% result by telling the Scots that the world was going to end if they dared vote the wrong way, it is looking good given it is 50/50 in the polls on the EU at the moment.

Thoughts? Which way are you leaning towards voting in the EU referendum?

[abc]

"These foreigners are coming and stealing our jobs". Keep repeating that to people and they will get scared.

The date of the referendum has not yet been announced, the current poll means nothing. In June it was 60-40 in favour of the 'Yes' vote. The poll will change several times before the actual vote because just before the vote will the masses of information for the public flow in through leaflets, TV ads, bill boards, debates etc. The campaigns have merely just started.

I am voting yes. Here are some reasons why:

1) Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to lower-cost EU countries. Britain's large foreign-owned car industry would shift into the EU and sectors linked to EU membership such as aerospace would also suffer. Airbus production could move to France and Germany. Staying in the EU creates up to 1 million jobs in UK.

2) Stripped of influence in Brussels, Berlin and Paris, Britain would find itself increasingly ignored by Washington and sidelined on big transnational issues such as the environment, security and trade. The UK risks becoming a maverick, isolated state if it leaves. EU gives us power. Being a single state would reduce our power on the global stage.

3) Approx 1.3 millions UK citizens live in other EU countries. Voting No could/will send these people back to UK. They could have settled in these countries where they are 'foreigners' stealing the local jobs (Gosh how dare us British steal other peoples jobs?!) and moving back could ruin their lives in many ways

4) Britons benefit from EU employment laws and social protections, which would be stripped away.

The reasons for staying in massively outweigh the reasons for leaving. Anyone who does not see this is deluded.

[-:Undertaker:-]

"These foreigners are coming and stealing our jobs". Keep repeating that to people and they will get scared.

One of the prime arguments for Britain being independent and leaving the EU is the democratic argument. Under EU law, we cannot control our own immigration system. How can it be right that the elected British government cannot, despite having it within an elected mandate, carry out the wishes of the people?

Whatever you think of the immigration argument and whatever levels you prefer, the democratic and sovereign argument for EU withdrawal is overwhelming.

1) Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to lower-cost EU countries. Britain's large foreign-owned car industry would shift into the EU and sectors linked to EU membership such as aerospace would also suffer. Airbus production could move to France and Germany. Staying in the EU creates up to 1 million jobs in UK.

Why would these jobs move? Have all the jobs in New Zealand, America, Switzerland, Norway, Russia, Australia, Canada and the other 180+ countries in the world all moved to France and Germany for some unknown reason 'becuz dey not in the EU'? Oh yes they haven't.

And your side said the exact same thing back in 2000 telling us we'd all be unemployed if we didn't join the Euro. It's bullshit.

2) Stripped of influence in Brussels, Berlin and Paris, Britain would find itself increasingly ignored by Washington and sidelined on big transnational issues such as the environment, security and trade. The UK risks becoming a maverick, isolated state if it leaves. EU gives us power. Being a single state would reduce our power on the global stage.

Can you actually point or prove to me how this is the case when the British economy is predicted to be the only European economy left in the global top ten by 2050? Can you tell me how this is the case when Britain is one of only three countries with a blue water naval power capacity and will remain so into the future? Can you tell me how this is the case when we have a Commonwealth with historical ties and potential trade links to growing economies such as India, South Africa, Canada, Australia and many more?

Indeed by leaving we'll actually have a stronger voice in the world as we'll re-take our seat on the World Trade Organisation.

3) Approx 1.3 millions UK citizens live in other EU countries. Voting No could/will send these people back to UK. They could have settled in these countries where they are 'foreigners' stealing the local jobs (Gosh how dare us British steal other peoples jobs?!) and moving back could ruin their lives in many ways

Absolute and utter rubbish. Where do you come up with this stuff from? You speak as though before the EU we didn't work and live in one anothers countries. There's been French living and working in the City of London since time began. We're not in a political union with Thailand, China, Singapore, Canada, America, Saudi Arabia and Qatar yet hundreds of thousands/millions of Britons still live and work in those countries and vice versa.

4) Britons benefit from EU employment laws and social protections, which would be stripped away.

Cameron is removing those as part of 'renegotiation' and if you'll have noticed, the European Union isn't too keen on so-called social protections as seen in Greece where the country has been forced to endure massive unemployment and state asset stripping on the orders of Brussels.

The reasons for staying in massively outweigh the reasons for leaving. Anyone who does not see this is deluded.

You are still yet to state any mechanisms by which your scaremongering predictions will come true if we dare return to being an independent country, pre-1973. And by that I mean actually showing me and providing evidence as to why companies will suddenly leave the world's number one financial power and decamp to France (ha ha ha!). Simply stating that Britain will become a tiny voice with no jobs left if we leave the EU defies the political and economic realities.

[Thordenhime]

Yeah you would like the sun get me a credible news source and i'll start a pointless debate with you where you refuse to get over your xenophobic attitude.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah you would like the sun get me a credible news source and i'll start a pointless debate with you where you refuse to get over your xenophobic attitude.

It's xenophobic to want your democratically elected government to make decisions that it can be held accountable for?

[Thordenhime]

Nah its xenophobic to call refugees economic migrants and say that they will rape our women and take our jobs.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Nah its xenophobic to call refugees economic migrants and say that they will rape our women and take our jobs.

This isn't an immigration thread, there's more reasons to oppose the EU than just mass, uncontrolled immigration.

Maybe you could you know, like, try debating them.

[Thordenhime]

This isn't an immigration thread, there's more reasons to oppose the EU than just mass, uncontrolled immigration.

Maybe you could you know, like, try debating them.

gave up debating with you when you refuse to answer any of my points in previous topics does it not alarm you that a hell of alot of people gave up debating with you ages ago because they knew it was pointless because you dont back up any of your claims with credible evidence.

[abc]

Why would these jobs move? Have all the jobs in New Zealand, America, Switzerland, Norway, Russia, Australia, Canada and the other 180+ countries in the world all moved to France and Germany for some unknown reason 'becuz dey not in the EU'? Oh yes they haven't.

The above just shows how in reality you either:

a) know very little you know about this topic
b) are scraping together these desperate points which are quite embarrassing tbh.

To simplify it for you: If UK leaves the EU, trade agreements will change between UK and rest of EU. That means the goods we manufacture become more expensive for other EU countries. They will find a cheaper source. We will lose money. We will lose jobs. Look at the steel industry for example (we just lost out to China... again). Cheap labour / costs will always kill our business. Being in EU helps keeps costs down.

BTW, can you seriously not see how ridiculous the argument you are making is? You are comparing the EU market and the manufacturing here to America etc? A lot of companies in USA manufacture there instead of China due to government grants and it works out cheaper to make in USA and sell in USA. If they tried selling in UK it would be more expensive. So instead they have another manufacturing facility in EU to sell to EU market. How hard is this to understand?

Absolute and utter rubbish. Where do you come up with this stuff from?

I was quoting the BBC and the Telegraph. Glad you think these two news organisations post "utter rubbish" figures. My point remains: 1.3 million British citizens have made use of the free movement agreement and work/live in other EU countries. They do not seem to mind. Yet when their citizens comes to us, O.M.G. A FOREIGNER TOOK MY JOB!!!! If the UK leaves the EU, those 1.3 million people could have to return just like we would probably end up kicking these "foreigners" out cos we are no longer in the EU.

I honestly used to enjoy debating with you as you used to come up with good arguments. Lately it seems you are desperately trying to scrape together any argument just for the sake of it.

See all the news saying JOB LOSSES in the news lately? Let's leave the EU and that headline will be etched on everyone's TV permanently. This country is primarily in the Service industry. Our manufacturing is almost dead. The EU is helping keep that alive, yet people want to kill that too because some are brainwashed with this OMG THAT POLISH GUY TOOK MY JOB nonsense.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The above just shows how in reality you either:

a) know very little you know about this topic
b) are scraping together these desperate points which are quite embarrassing tbh.

To simplify it for you: If UK leaves the EU, trade agreements will change between UK and rest of EU. That means the goods we manufacture become more expensive for other EU countries. They will find a cheaper source. We will lose money. We will lose jobs. Look at the steel industry for example (we just lost out to China... again). Cheap labour / costs will always kill our business. Being in EU helps keeps costs down.

Explain to me how and by what mechanism it becomes more expensive to trade with non-EU countries.

I have an extra question for you. If Britain leaves the EU, does it or does it not regain its own seat on the World Trade Organisation (WTO)?

BTW, can you seriously not see how ridiculous the argument you are making is? You are comparing the EU market and the manufacturing here to America etc? A lot of companies in USA manufacture there instead of China due to government grants and it works out cheaper to make in USA and sell in USA. If they tried selling in UK it would be more expensive. So instead they have another manufacturing facility in EU to sell to EU market. How hard is this to understand?

The United Kingdom is one of the world's biggest manufacturing nations and you are kidding yourself if you believe subsidising industry actually works. It does not. France subsidies her industry (mainly via the EU forcing the rest of Europe to buy French goods) and yet France is facing a lot of structural problems that we are not, because Britain is open to global trade and does not feel the need to prop up failing industries.

All you do with state restrictions on trade, like you talk about with the USA and EU, is make goods more expensive for the consumer. The agricultural industry is a key example of this where we are forced to buy higher prices European food rather than cheaper non-EU foods, ie NZ.

I was quoting the BBC and the Telegraph. Glad you think these two news organisations post "utter rubbish" figures. My point remains: 1.3 million British citizens have made use of the free movement agreement and work/live in other EU countries. They do not seem to mind. Yet when their citizens comes to us, O.M.G. A FOREIGNER TOOK MY JOB!!!! If the UK leaves the EU, those 1.3 million people could have to return just like we would probably end up kicking these "foreigners" out cos we are no longer in the EU.

So what is your point? 1.3m Britons live and work in the EU and many others work outside of the EU. And your point is what.

I honestly used to enjoy debating with you as you used to come up with good arguments. Lately it seems you are desperately trying to scrape together any argument just for the sake of it.

You claimed earlier that by leaving the EU the 1.3m Britons who live and work in the European Union could be sent home, a pretty serious allegation to make. Once I asked you to explain exactly why this would happen when many Britons live and work abroad in none-EU countries, you fell silent.

Because you know it is rubbish. You know it has no foundation in the truth and reality of the question.

See all the news saying JOB LOSSES in the news lately? Let's leave the EU and that headline will be etched on everyone's TV permanently. This country is primarily in the Service industry. Our manufacturing is almost dead. The EU is helping keep that alive, yet people want to kill that too because some are brainwashed with this OMG THAT POLISH GUY TOOK MY JOB nonsense.

Can you explain how the EU is "keeping it alive"? You speak as though our manufacturing is gone and our services industry is on the floor.

Britain is the 8th largest manufacturing nation in the world.

Britain has one of the largest service sectors in the world.

You know what your problem is? Apart from getting the facts wrong. It's that you have no confidence in this country or her future.