Should bullies be held responsible?

[buttons]

The film 'Unfriended' shows a bullied victim getting revenge on her bullies but with a twist; she is dead, having committed suicide due to the bullying.

I won't spoil the rest of the movie (you should watch it!) but it does raise the question of whether bullies should be held responsible for their actions or not.

Indeed, you might think so when you consider that bully victims are between 2 and 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims. Furthermore, studied have found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying. Whilst not every bully victim considers or attempts suicide, the effects can still be very real and often long lasting. For example, bully victims risk their education by refusing to go to school and many harm themselves or become anxious and depressed.

So, what do we do about bullies? Does bullying someone to the brink of suicide make the bully responsible? Or is the bully victim responsible for actions they take?

Before you decide, I will present you with some arguments for and against the debate!


ARGUMENTS FOR TAKING RESPONSIBILITY
- Bullying should be treated as a form of assault/harassment/abuse and therefore action should be taken against bullies.

ARGUMENTS AGAINST TAKING RESPONSIBILITY
- Victims are responsible for their own actions whether that is suicide/harming themselves or getting help.
- School bullies may face pressure to bully others, thus not being entirely responsible for their actions.

The debate is now up to you! Good contributions will be rewarded with reputation throughout the thread and the member who makes the best contributions throughout the month will win the Debater of the Month award, 2 weeks VIP, as well as 250 tokens. Creating interesting member debates will also win you reputation/tokens!

This debate will close on the 7th of December (omg already?!) so get your views heard!

[Expling]

bullying is definitely abuse and whatever happens is down to the bully - the victim wouldn't want to/attempt to harm themselves in any way if they weren't bullied, bullies should definitely take responsibility for their actions!

ps gonna watch that film now

[Ms.Aquamarine]

There are bullies who never had the intention for their victim(s) to commit suicide or harm themselves, but what bullies need to understand is that they are causing their victim(s) pain. Now in some cases, bullies may not know that they are actually causing pain towards their victims because for example their victim(s) may just show no emotion, or simply laugh it off - when really the victim is hurting inside. Whether a bully did or did not know that they have harmed/are causing harm towards their victim they are still responsible because they were/are the cause of it.

Even though some bullies may be pressured to bully others, at the end of the day they still played a part in causing a victim to harm themselves.

Victims of bullying who know they have people or at least one person that cares about them so much and are willing to help them in any way possible may still decide to commit suicide because the pain is too much. If the victim(s) chooses suicide, the people/person that learn about it will be absolutely devastated - many even depressed and so much more. Saying this, the victim hurts the people they care about because of their decision to end their life, but again - the direct cause is the bully (or bullies). It wouldn't happen without the bullying!

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At the end of the day, we all need to love each other. :Heart:

[Lewis]

Bullies deserve a punishment as harsh as possible - they're just vile, inhumane scum. Some do change, sure, but that doesn't mean their actions which were under their own will won't have an everlasting effect on someone else or even terrible consequences such as the suicide of someone. They don't know how mentally fragile someone is and, quite frankly, they don't care.

To me if someone commits suicide over a bully, the bully is no better than a murderer.

Victims are responsible for their own actions? Most ludicrous thing I've read. If a bully has went so far to cause the mental instability and suicide of someone (I'm not saying all suicides are because of mental instability by the way...), it certainly wasn't their own choice - it was the bully's choice.

And that second point is just as bad - feeling pressured to bully someone? It's their own choice and it is their own actions in the end... let's all feel sorry for the poor, innocent peer-pressured bully(!)

Bullies are bullies, and bullies should be treated no better than any other criminal out there. They are 100% responsible for what they do.

[buttons]

Victims are responsible for their own actions? Most ludicrous thing I've read. If a bully has went so far to cause the mental instability and suicide of someone (I'm not saying all suicides are because of mental instability by the way...), it certainly wasn't their own choice - it was the bully's choice.

but victims are responsible for their own actions. everyone is responsible for the actions they take, whether it's to end their life, allow people to continue to bully them or to do something about it. granted, it's difficult to do something about bullying in a school setting, trust me i tried, but i don't think isolating myself instead of seeking an outlet did myself any good. whilst bullying can cause mental scars and suicidal ideation, its the bully victim who ultimately makes the decision on what to do about it. or maybe i just think people have more free will than they do but for example, as an adult, if i was feeling bullied at work, instead of letting people walk all over me, i would make the decision to do something about it. i think that's the "adult" thing to do.

another situation to think about is: your parents split up amicably and try to keep you happy but you still feel depressed about it. is your depression your responsibility or your parents? i would say it's yours because no matter the situation, one person will look at it pessimistically and another will look at it optimistically and that's your "choice" on how to interpret the situation.

[Lewis]

but victims are responsible for their own actions. everyone is responsible for the actions they take, whether it's to end their life, allow people to continue to bully them or to do something about it. granted, it's difficult to do something about bullying in a school setting, trust me i tried, but i don't think isolating myself instead of seeking an outlet did myself any good. whilst bullying can cause mental scars and suicidal ideation, its the bully victim who ultimately makes the decision on what to do about it. or maybe i just think people have more free will than they do but for example, as an adult, if i was feeling bullied at work, instead of letting people walk all over me, i would make the decision to do something about it. i think that's the "adult" thing to do.

another situation to think about is: your parents split up amicably and try to keep you happy but you still feel depressed about it. is your depression your responsibility or your parents? i would say it's yours because no matter the situation, one person will look at it pessimistically and another will look at it optimistically and that's your "choice" on how to interpret the situation.

This might be seen as an absurd comparison, so my apologies, but it's like someone supplying cocaine to a person which ultimately leads to their untimely death. The person who died may have allowed themselves to take the deadly drug, but in the end it would not have happened if it were not for the person allowing themselves to sell them this drug and let it happen to them. This is like how a victim may allow themselves to be bullied, probably due to fear and worry of telling someone, which may cause them to commit suicide as a result of of the constant anxiety and increasing of a fragile mind.

Except the scenario above doesn't really sum up my absolute true opinion, as I don't really give any blame to the victim of a bully at all if they were to commit suicide.

Some people just aren't that mentally strong to stand up to themselves, or tell someone, even if it is seen as the 'adult' thing to do. And sometimes, especially in a school-settings, standing up does very little. I've witnessed that not myself, but from other people in my own family, with schools reluctant to do anything, leaving it up to them to do something about it.

In your situation, the parents aren't splitting up deliberately to cause the depression in the child - the bullies however are. The bullies aren't trying to keep the child happy - the parents however are. So it isn't necessarily the parents fault, although they should be trying to do as much as possible to help.

However, if the reason for splitting was due to a severe issue such as domestic abuse (or perhaps even cheating) it is certainly at least one of the parents fault.

[Ice-KiLlAh]

I think they are entirely accountable for their actions the whole idea behind accountability is the person is aware of what they are doing. The argument presented of the victims being accountable for self-harming doesn't hold much baring. The reason I state that is because many great minds in the past have stated words, not words, guns or physicality are the greatest weapon in the world.

If we apply that to the point your original post brought up it essentially means that the bully in question are fully aware of what they are doing and how it may affect someone else. If they do not take that into account then it's likely they do not have good judgement of character or social skills. However, most of the time they are aware otherwise they wouldn't waste their breath bullying people.

Bullying on the internet and bullying in school is a lot different. Some things that aren't seen as social norms in the real world such as suicide jokes, rape jokes etc, are seen as a "norm," by some select bullies on the internet. That hints more than someone playing a practical joke and leans more towards sociopath behavior. Outside of the internet someone can lie, whereas on the internet due to someones anonymity it's much easier for someone to become a pathological liar.

Why is any of that relevant?

Due to the connectivity and environment of the internet if overused it can push people into the pathological lying/sociopath behavior I had previously stated.

How are they responsible if the internet has conditioned them that way?

Again, they are people and just like the climate in a school with a classroom bully a lot of the time people on the internet will do it to impress someone (eg. Twitter bullies for retweets.) That does not make it right and in itself as explained before raises a big alarm over the mental health of the person doing it.

What mental health issue? You've already ranted like a lunatic about sociopaths!

A lot of the time people that do it on-line are doing it to achieve an alpha status over their peers. That creates a breeding ground for people who want to "one up," each other; it becomes obsessive after a long time and completely turn said bully into a social recluse which of course highlights many more possible mental afflictions.

Social recluse? Obsessive bullying? Sounds like we should be sympathetic for them!

No, by no means is that the case at all. A lot of sociopaths attempt to justify their actions without ever feeling empathy for another person. If you are on-line and are unsympathetic to someone who you, yourself has upset you are aware when you do it you're shielded by the anonymity of the internet. The first time a cyber bully bullies someone they are entirely aware of what they are doing and are choosing to act that way if it becomes an obsessive disorder for them or they become depressed and recluses they only have themselves to blame; if they cannot show empathy to others and choose not to they should not receive it.

[Empired]

but victims are responsible for their own actions. everyone is responsible for the actions they take, whether it's to end their life, allow people to continue to bully them or to do something about it.

Not if the bully has tortured them to the point where their view of the world is so distorted they can't see logic anymore. Generally speaking, if you're told something is true enough times ("no one likes you, you should do us all a favour and kill yourself" being a prime example I've heard irl before) you believe it even if it seemed ludicrous to begin with.
If a bully tells someone something like that often enough that they believe it and attempt suicide, how can the victim be held responsible? The bully has manipulated their way of thinking into believing that suicide is the better/only option. In other words, if you push someone over the edge of madness and they end their life because of it, you are the one who did that. They would not have done that if you hadn't been there bullying them.
Nonetheless I wouldn't go as far as to call them a murderer, but that's something for another time.

I am confused by your example of parents divorcing. I don't think it's a relevant example because parents don't divorce to torment their kids and look "cool" to their friends like bullies do. Unhappiness of kids due to their parents divorcing is a horrible but usually unavoidable side effect, unhappiness due to being bullied is one of the bully's main intentions.

[buttons]

Not if the bully has tortured them to the point where their view of the world is so distorted they can't see logic anymore. Generally speaking, if you're told something is true enough times ("no one likes you, you should do us all a favour and kill yourself" being a prime example I've heard irl before) you believe it even if it seemed ludicrous to begin with.
If a bully tells someone something like that often enough that they believe it and attempt suicide, how can the victim be held responsible? The bully has manipulated their way of thinking into believing that suicide is the better/only option. In other words, if you push someone over the edge of madness and they end their life because of it, you are the one who did that. They would not have done that if you hadn't been there bullying them.
Nonetheless I wouldn't go as far as to call them a murderer, but that's something for another time.

I am confused by your example of parents divorcing. I don't think it's a relevant example because parents don't divorce to torment their kids and look "cool" to their friends like bullies do. Unhappiness of kids due to their parents divorcing is a horrible but usually unavoidable side effect, unhappiness due to being bullied is one of the bully's main intentions.

my point is just that often life is about perception, a person can be bullied but not be bothered by it because their perception is that the bully is at fault and it's not to do with them. maybe a better example would be if your partner cheated on you and you committed suicide, should that person be held responsible? i would say no because regardless of morality and circumstances, you *chose* to commit suicide no matter why you did it.

i agree with everyone that if a bully victim committed suicide, i would like to see some justice. but to me, if i did that as an adult where there are other ways of dealing with bullying, then i think that responsibility would be on me. i think it's different when it comes to a child where it's very difficult to get out of the position (schools are terrible at dealing with bullying and you HAVE to go to school and face it everyday and it affects your education etcc).

see i would have agreed with you all completely when i was young and going through bullying but i don't want to see myself as a "bully victim". in my opinion, I'VE taken responsibility for my own feelings and actions and got over it/done something about it. i wouldn't let someone bully me now and i wouldn't feel sorry for myself for not doing something about it.

i suppose ultimately it comes down to how each person experiences and perceives it and just because i've got over it, doesn't mean everyone will (it's not easy to). but for me i personally feel like i had some responsibility in dealing with the bullies and my own perception over my bullying.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I am unsure although I would be wary of it due to bullying meaning virtually anything nowadays. I had various run-ins with the school who claimed I and my friends were bullying some kid when the reality is that they'd literally tried to force us to be friends with this kid and in our group we all absolutely ripped one another: so we kept getting hauled in for things we'd said not only to this kid hanging around/following us but also to one another. Add to that a teaching assistant with a real vendetta (and yes I know kids all say their teachers hated them but I got on with all my teachers but this woman was literally insane) and it ended up causing a load of trouble. In that instance I actually believe I was the one being **** bullied by a downright evil ******* of a teaching assistant.

I wasn't confident myself in school but I realise now looking back that uncomfortable or sometimes even cruel taunts or insults are part of growing up and character building which takes place in school. I think actual bullying though (day in, day out mental and physical abuse) is obviously very serious and downright vile.