I think it should be made private because my recent post in their has got me alot of -rep ;l
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I think it should be made private because my recent post in their has got me alot of -rep ;l
I agree. I thought it was to replace the contact us thing. That used to be private, and I dont see why this should be any different if its a replacement.
*Text Removed*
Edited by opensourcehost (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not be rude or insulting towards other forum members.
Totally agree although it is quite interesting to see some of the 'answers' :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammeth.
The only reason i'm glad it's not private right now is because I can see the thread that is complaining about me. Although, when I first read the idea I did actually assume that it would be private.
At least this way, people get a general understanding of what is being 'moaned' about, so there aren't 100's of threads on the same thing.
It should be private as its just the same as this section but doesnt allow others to comment, if you wish to make a more serious one use th Serious abuse forum.
also the thread about me you made got you -rep? lol
What if people have a complaint about others? It's only natural when they see it they may get upset and this forum which was created to "prevent arguments" will in fact instigate them moreso...
Its preventing arguements as your not creating a 100 page arguement between 2-6 members, when in fact its simply allowing AGMs/Admins etc to reply, if you have a serious report no one else is to see you PM it of use the serious abuse/report forum.
Why are we not allowed to "argue" over this forum? Obviously throwing insults at each other isn't tolerated, but we shouldn't have our right to debate and discuss issues on here taken away from us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxay
If people have a 'complaint' then why can't other people contribute to it and add their own experiences to it. That will therefore allow admins to see how serious a problem is as they will be aware whether or not more users are experiencing the same complaint/problem.
I think the problem here is admins can't be bothered going through long threads and seeing all users contributions so would rather just give a quick 2 minute answer.
Sadly - that's not the attitude that built Habbox to what it is now.
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Why are we not allowed to "argue" over this forum? Obviously throwing insults at each other isn't tolerated, but we shouldn't have our right to debate and discuss issues on here taken away from us.
Arguements always lead to insults/bullying. Debate and argueing is different tbh. Most of them always aimed at a user/group of people.
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If people have a 'complaint' then why can't other people contribute to it and add their own experiences to it. That will therefore allow admins to see how serious a problem is as they will be aware whether or not more users are experiencing the same complaint/problem.
Then it turns out as arguement and gets closed.
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I think the problem here is admins can't be bothered going through long threads and seeing all users contributions so would rather just give a quick 2 minute answer.
Its more likely that it causes arguements/fights
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Sadly - that's not the attitude that built Habbox to what it is now.
Whats not the attitude? :s
It gives us more freedom to reply.
If a complaint is posted on the forum, any AGM or Admin can reply, however not all AGMs and Admins have access to the contact us.
If the public can see the replies that we post to complaints, then they can see that something is definately being done about the problem, whereas with a contact us form there is rarely any guarantee or proof that an administrator has even read your complaint.
Obviously it will need tweaking to prevent people seeing other people's complaints aobut forum members/Habbox staff, however I think the idea is a good move; if only for the fact that we can reply and move on from a complaint much quicker than a contact us, and faster than if it was a public thread in this forum where lots of argumentative posting takes place.
This system allows us to stick to the system:
complaint ---> recognition ---> action ---> solution
in most cases, where as before it was:
complaint ---> sift through 8 pages of four or five members arguing ---> take moderator action against breach of forum rules within thread ---> actually figure out what is being complained about ---> try and come up with a solution.
Well if people are going to get into arguments then it is obviously a heated enough topic to cause such conflict.
I understand some users will break forum rules - but isn't that why we have moderators in the first place? Their job is actually to deal with the rule breaking that occurs, so why should other members valid opinions be silenced just because of they people - that can actually be dealt with the way they are supposed to be anyway...?
I really do think this is just a case of, as Adzeh actually admitted, admins being far too damn lazy to sift through threads to get a real insight into both sides of the argument and see how users react to it. To be honest I feel we need admins who are actually dedicated to do so, as that is the way to see a quick overall look of many forum members opinions regarding issues and therefore an insight can be seen easily.
Can I complain about normal members or just **** staff?
That wasn't what I was getting at.
What I said was that, by sifting through pages and pages of a thread, admins and AGMs lose sight of why the thread was actually made, and end up getting taken just as off topic as the thread often is, and then nothing gets done about it other than infractions being dished out for perfectly valid reasons.
Whether this works or not will soon be apparent, but its better to have tried it and failed, than not tried at all, surely?
If anything, I should think you guys would actually be praising the management, since a pretty high percentage of infractions given in this forum, will now be eliminated since there is no chance for argument.
Users can always take up a discussion via PM if they feel passionately. Yes it isn't the same as a thread, but it would suffice to get your point across.
If you're getting negative rep for something like that, it could probably be classed as 'pointless rep'. I'd let a Super Moderator or Forum Administrator know, so they can investigate.
I'm sorry but that's completely uncalled for. I agree that the stifling of discussion due to the complaints forum is perhaps an issue, but saying its just because administrators are too lazy is quite frankly just speaking without even thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
On top of everything I do, I don't have time to come back and read a thirty two page thread. Well, I might, if it was all on discussion. However when I read the 32 page thread, I find somewhere around page 8, insults get slung around for four pages, then someone brings up another topic bashing someone. Then it stops around page 17 and there's a page and a half discussion on another related issue. Then someone comes back and quotes page 6 and brings the argument back after people passed over it. A page and a half more of the conversation on page 17 and 18 comes, then someone bashes the member who quoted page 6 on page 18/19. Then bashing for 5 pages, then bash some staff for another 5.
Confusing? Yeah, I think so too. I don't have time to read a thread where everyone bashes everyone, half the posts are pointless, and I have to hand out 10 infractions. Why are the big threads so hard to handle? Because the big threads are where all the rulebreaking is. Take a look, the big long threads you see are ALWAYS complaints, and somewhere along the way someone is ALWAYS bashing. Why can't the moderators deal with it? Because the thing evolves so damned fast. I post in a thread, come back the next day, and there's TEN pages of bashing that flew up overnight. Its impossible to keep on track with that.
Please, do a little investigation before you decry all the administrators of the forum for such things. After all, although you have experience, they are very different times.
I am not sure if you understand the difference between open debate and arguements. Also I find your tone a bit annoying as it seems you feel you can constantly reply 'on behalf' of management telling members what they should do. It is not up to you to make a decision and tell anybody 'to use the serious abuse/report form' as opposed to the complaints forum. That is a matter for Habbox Management. Thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxay
I never answer on behalf of management thank you very much, i simply answer on my own behalf as its a stupid question and obviously not a hard answer. Its clear that every single complaint in here has generated about 15+ pages full of argueing, this isnt an open debate more of a 'group' bullying/insulting the others. I didnt say its my decision to make them use the serious abuse/report form, but if you dont want other members seeing it then why on earth would you post in the PUBLIC COMPLAINTS forum as apposed to the PRIVATE REPORT SERIOUS ABUSE forum? Its common sense if you took your time to think about it.
My, My now we have it - I have never heard anything so silly in my life -Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxay
if people are bullying then the moderators would deal with it. If members felt people were bullying others they would report it. Quite honestly I am speechless as you reply is incredibly uninformed and inaccurate.
Post some recent links showing this please. Thanks :)
I suppose my post was pretty generalised and obviously it doesn't apply to every administrator. I am fully aware there is many adminsout there working to the best of their ability to cope with their huge workload. However - at the same time there is some who aren't, and are some mod's who are letting people get away with murder whilst others are being punished for petty reasons, you are aware yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by nvrspk4
You can say that again. :rolleyes:Quote:
After all, although you have experience, they are very different times.
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Originally Posted by Adzeh
This all sounds very fancy and again I wonder if you know the difference between arguement and debate. It certainly gives you more freedom to reply and even more freedom not to be accountable for actually dealing with the compaint. In your case I have also noticed that you are slightly caustic in your answers - Was 'have a nice day :)' really called for when you obviously didn't mean it.
complaint ---> recognition ---> action ---> solution
Hmmm so far I have seen complaints but very few solutions or indeed recognition that there is a complaint at all.
complaint ---> sift through 8 pages of four or five members arguing ---> take moderator action against breach of forum rules within thread ---> actually figure out what is being complained about ---> try and come up with a solution.[/I]
Why do Management feel that it is necessary to wait until the thread is 8 pages long? If they can check the complaint forum efficiently why can't they step in early on a thread. Nvrspk4 and Joshuar regularly enter debates but they don't have the power to make a final decision. What is being complained about is usually in the thread starters first post? Very few as I can see have actually required any moderator action. The problem is that Management quite often don't want to come up with a solution as it might mean having to compromise. The complaints forum is there so that Management have control of the situation as opposed to free speech of members. Thats what its all about.
That is exactly why we have the complaints forum. All the addons to the complaint are not necessary so we can resolve it or at least reply to the thread starter and he/she will know what is/isn't happening to solve the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
Yes thats true - we do not want endless discussions about a complaint we are looking at solving or already have solved. If you call that controlling, then fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
Thats another problem, you don't seem to think we try to solve problems if we feel they are real. You think they are only solved if there is a 90 paged thread, that is simply not true. There are somethings that can be solved quickly, whilst others take longer or cannot be solved at all to everyone's liking :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
The reason the forum is not private is so that people can see we try to deal with problems and that we are not trying to hide problems that members are having with Habbox to make it seem like we are "perfect".
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Originally Posted by ---MAD---
Well yes I do see it as controlling and it is up to you whether a thread goes on endlessly. All you need to do is to post and say that the suggestion(why are they seen as complaints?) is being considered and I am sure that will satisfy the membership as long as the decision is then posted whether it is yes or no with valid reasons for either answer. Obviously you can't please everybody and nobody is suggesting that is what should happen.
At the end of the day it is you who has power to make a decision and this causes these endless discussions because you basically ignore some threads and by ignoring them you come over as dismissive and uncaring which you are probably not. Maybe you should consider some delegation of power?
As far as having 'complaints open' I do think that some members would prefer their matter to be dealt with in a private way so maybe you should have a private section for this. I personally feel Earthquake has a valid arguement - he is basically being bullied with -rep for a complaint that he is entitled to make.
I don't think anybody is expecting Habbox to be perfect just to interact with members in a positive and friendly way.
Yes we do have the power to deal with it and this is the way we wanted to deal with it. If we locked a complaint thread, another will be made saying "WHY LOCK THE THREAD?!?!" for example. Any solution will not please all users as this is a sensitive area (complaints).Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
If a complaint needs to be private, a PM to myself or whoever needs to read it is still an option.
That is all I will be saying regarding this matter as I think I have explained everything now.
Well okay so summarising what you have said it basically boils down to if you want to ignore members threads you will. I do not see who 'we' is though
but as you said you have nothing more to say on the matter so members who have made very valid suggestions in the feedback forum can basically bog off as far as you are concerned!:D
I hope I have summarised your feelings in these matters correctly.
So even if another member asks a valid question regarding the idea you won't be answering it? Says a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ---MAD---
I thought this forum was all about the users?
The past couple of weeks all I have seen is admins doing whatever they think is good, and despite a large amount of user uproar and decline regarding the issue it seems to be a case of "our way or no way".
I think it's important staff remember it is the users that have made Habbox what it is, and give it a purpose in the first place, so isn't it about time youa ctually started to listening to what we want? :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Ostinato
Fair enough.
Don't quote me on whether its good or bad though :PQuote:
You can say that again. :rolleyes:
Agreed, this wasn't taken into account when the forum was created.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
I agree, everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion. If someone did want a debate, then surely they would post in the Habbox Feedback so there can be a discussion. I disagree with the admin part, some work very hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
Admin only moderate the Habbox Feedback section, maybe they should consider adding Super Moderators or even normal moderators of whom would be able to do the job. If they have that BIG workload then maybe they should consider doing this :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
I try to be fair at all times. I will punish what i believe needs punishing. Maybe if more members were to report posts, more will be done, especially during the times overnight and early morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
Maybe you should give it a little more time, to be fair it has only just come to our attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
I do agree with your second comment :)
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
Agreed. Not everyone will be happy, thats the way it goes :eusa_danc. Wahheyy MAD has a solution to the private, the PM! Well done Mad :PQuote:
Originally Posted by ---MAD---
Well said :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
The complaints forum has to be public, as we want to be open about any complaints that we might get, and not try to hide them.Quote:
Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKErules
If you want to complain about something privately, you can send a PM or use the Contact Us form.
But that goes against what other admins have said. The forum was meant to relieve them of the use of the Contact Us form and to give members a quick reply. Isn't there a way of disabling reputation in the forum? Because there is more reason for it to be private, than there is for it to public "/Quote:
Originally Posted by sierk
To be public:
1. Members can see what others have said.
To be private:
1. People get negatively repped.
2. People can have an actual, intimate conversation with higher management which it isn't at the moment. It's like 2 people in a room, with about 500 outside listening in using glass tumblers :rolleyes:
3. Arguments have, obviously, been caused around the forum about threads in the complaint forum and about the complaint forum. Was it not to solve these arguments?
If people wanted to talk to admins, they can do so by the contact us or by PM. Having the complaints forum was pointless from the start, by the looks of it "/
I think private questions or complaints about staff or other members should get posted in the serious rule breaking forum that already exists :o obviously the forum name would need altering a little.
Its wrong that others should see anything like that and I agree it will cause trouble between members in other threads and posts all over the forums.
Any general complaints that do not involve naming and shaming anybody could go in to the complaints forum.
I do think that if there is something that needs discussing by the members then use the feedback forum. If a member feels strongly enough they need to complain about the issue then maybe put a link in the complaint to the thread in the feedback forum of what everybody else thinks after a discussion.
That's just creating complications "/ We only need one forum with one subforum for secret discussions with a one-to-one chat with an admin "/
I think you're all missing the point on what the forum is actually designed for.
It's for well worded, and informed complaints about the site/forum eg. 'I think there should be less content on the homepage to reduce server load, as the site is always really slow when I go on it' (that's just an example). It's not for threads like "That member is actually stupid, because he said this in this thread, don't you agree?" If you've got an issue you consider to be personal, PM it. It's your own fault if you don't think about this before posting, IMO.
I think a lot of you are underestimating the workload of an Administrator. They come online to a large number of PMs, requests for reputation/infractions to be looked at and the like. In addition, they've got staff to manage and assess. I can hardly blame them for going to a thirty page complaint and getting sidetracked with all the flaming. They then spend time infracting for that, instead of actually getting to the root of the problem. The complaints forum allows members to give AGM/Administrators feedback and complaints on the site, and more importantly, allows them to read the problem and rectify it if necessary without reading through pages of spam and flaming.
Well with due respect if the admins are overloaded with work then more should be recruited. Also it is supermods who check the majoroty of the infraction complaints. As they are on the forum every day there is no reason fior a thread to get to 30 pages unless it is ignored by the management member who has the power to take action and in the two latest big discussions there was not not one infraction or warning given. The issue was whether we could still post in this forum and discuss matters as a forum and Sierk has aleady replied here saying we can and that the complaints forum is normally for complaining about a member of staff - most debates are about systems in operation.Quote:
Originally Posted by benzoenator
Link:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showpost....3&postcount=52
Three of the most hardworking admins/agms are usually very pro-active and positive in the debates on the issues raised. Nobody is complaining about the admins anyway as usually when a thread is left running it is because they cannot give a decision on it.
become admin againQuote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato
ban mad
fix forum :)