Abuse of staff powers / Outright fail in communications and knowledge of rules.

Recently i was contacted about an arbitrary and pointless rule being supposedly broken - despite the fact this is actually one of the fictious rules some mods seem to like trying to enforce.

The rule was that of avatar size, having been a member on this forum a very long time, i have archived the platinum rank (twice in total) before the post requirements for it were moved. My avatar was uploaded back when that limit was 5000 posts.

The avatar stayed on my account for more than a year while my post count was under the boundary needed without comment - This is fair in my opinion as taking away a privilege someone has already earned seems a little harsh.

Suddenly a certain super mod decided this should no longer be the case and asked me to alter the size of it. Rather than kick up a fuss i decided to comply and conferring with a manager agreed to apply for the 3 months free VIP gained from being here 5 years. I was advised to contact Jin whom i am yet to get hold of.

Now this certain mod has decided that there was a magic time limit of 24 hours (which had never before this been mentioned) Since i have not yet managed to contact jin. They took matters in to there own hands and removed my avatar and gave me a warning.

... So guess what, i'm going to kickup a fuss. I name no names, but will provide them to appropriate staff if required and i'm happy for those involve to come forward and try and explain themselves.

I'd rather do this in a public forum as it seems certain staff still seem to be in the habbit of making rules up whenever they think there in the safty of Private Messaging which cant be posted on the forum without breaking an actual rule, thus can be hidden...

So what will i dispute?

The 24 hour time limit
Take a look though the rules... i dont see this one there?

Communication
This issue was passed up to a higher member of staff at my request. I discussed the issue with this staff member and came to an agreement.
The mod decided obviously there was no point checking with the guy he passed the issue on to - that would make no sense?

Avatar size limit itself
This rule does not and has NEVER existed. It is totally made up.
Gaining a user-rank allows you to set an avatar to a larger size. Having achieved this i did set my avatar to this size.
There is NO rule that says i should ever have to resize it if the rankings are changed to the point i no long have this rank.
There is NO rule that says i cannot have an avatar as large as i had it - regardless of rank of vip status


And what's my big gripe?
My avatar was removed from failing to comply with a non-existent rule within a non-existent time frame.

Whats more i even agreed, just to be nice, to follow this fictional rule. I agreed to apply for the VIP status i have earned from my time here. I had agreed this with the super mod's superior.

I request the warning remove, my avatar put back (as i am no longer able to do this myself due to the size constraints added when setting it)

I also would like to request mods and super mods especially be forced to actually read the rules once in a while. Equally to take in to account that when you pass an issue on to someone, chances are, they may actually do somthing about it themselves.

Bit of a rant, but the story can be confirmed easily enough by admins, and the rules are easily found within the FAQ if anyone what's to check the validity of my claims. I see this a massive abuse of powers by said member (seeing as there power was used to enforce a rule they made up) and a failing in the moderation proccess that needs to be looked in to.

Thankyou,
Mentor

just find it ashame that you've been here 5 and a half years and can't keep the avatar you've had so long. pretty stupid.

If this was not against the rules, then there would not be an infraction entitled "Profile Violation".

Following your Private Message yesterday, politely asking you to remove your avatar as it was over the size limit for your member group (limits which have been around for quite a long time) you raised concerns which were forwarded to management.

The result given to you was that your avatar was over the limit for your usergroup and the only way to ensure it wasn't was to buy VIP.

In terms of "24 hours" there is no fixed rule, infact the moderator guide states that "if the user has not removed their avatar some time after your request for removal (and they have been online since that PM) then a warning should be issued and the avatar should be removed." I personally work to a time constraint of 24 hours, other mods do too however some could quite easily issue a warning earlier.

I've seen the PMs from management (the ones saying I was right and that your avatar was oversized) and both Forum Managers were aware that this warning would be coming your way should you not remove the avatar.

This rule is the same for every other member and has been enforced for as long as I've been a moderator. Like I said, if it wasn't a rule there wouldn't be an infraction for it, and it certainly wouldn't be part of the Super Moderator guide.

i agree with the avatar rule, every other fansite got rid of it and allow 150x150 regardless; of your usergroup

also if your a new user and you select one of the Habbox avatars that are 150x150 its lets you :P

edit; i tough this would be some good power abuse :( like oli banning loads

Oh and I'm pretty sure your avatar hasn't been an issue before because as far as I can remember you've always had donator/VIP where the limit is 150x150.

I will use a perfect example:

Laws in real life change all time time e.g. smoking ban in public areas. You have to keep up-to-date with the rules and follow them.
If you didn't temporarily remove it after the Super Moderator's warning, its your fault.

I believe it is you who should read the rules from time to time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by invincible

Oh and I'm pretty sure your avatar hasn't been an issue before because as far as I can remember you've always had donator/VIP where the limit is 150x150.

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Erm... -cough-

Quote:

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Avatar size limit itself
This rule does not and has NEVER existed. It is totally made up.
Gaining a user-rank allows you to set an avatar to a larger size. Having achieved this i did set my avatar to this size.
There is NO rule that says i should ever have to resize it if the rankings are changed to the point i no long have this rank.
There is NO rule that says i cannot have an avatar as large as i had it - regardless of rank of vip status

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by invincible

If this was not against the rules, then there would not be an infraction entitled "Profile Violation".

Following your Private Message yesterday, politely asking you to remove your avatar as it was over the size limit for your member group (limits which have been around for quite a long time) you raised concerns which were forwarded to management.

The result given to you was that your avatar was over the limit for your usergroup and the only way to ensure it wasn't was to buy VIP.

In terms of "24 hours" there is no fixed rule, infact the moderator guide states that "if the user has not removed their avatar some time after your request for removal (and they have been online since that PM) then a warning should be issued and the avatar should be removed." I personally work to a time constraint of 24 hours, other mods do too however some could quite easily issue a warning earlier.

I've seen the PMs from management (the ones saying I was right and that your avatar was oversized) and both Forum Managers were aware that this warning would be coming your way should you not remove the avatar.

This rule is the same for every other member and has been enforced for as long as I've been a moderator. Like I said, if it wasn't a rule there wouldn't be an infraction for it, and it certainly wouldn't be part of the Super Moderator guide.

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Habbox's rules: http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?f...aq_rules_forum

Can you point it out for me, as a dropdown option in the mod panel doesnt really cut it in my mind - especially when thats for inappropriate avatars /sigs containing nudity/violence etc.

24 hour time limit is fair enough if you tell the person this. If you keep this time a secret then pounce, while the user is still actively attempting to resolve the issue. Then no, this is not fair by any standard.

My avatar was over the limit for my user group - BUT this is NOT against the rules.

If you have enforced this "rule" on other users, then they should also be removed. There is NO rule. If habbox choose's to add a rule on this fine. But at current, there is none. And applying a new rule back to events before its existence is inappropriate.

Equally, if the super mod's guide includes rules not in the public rules (see real rules) Then obviously who ever maintains this guide needs to get on and update it.

A super moderator really should know the forums actual rules though, not just what some guide tells them. If the normal members are expected to, then you should doubly so.

Also i have never been a donator - nore VIP before that. I have had VIP via MoTM, but my avatar pre-date's that's existence by a time measured in years (i think around 3)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

Recently i was contacted about an arbitrary and pointless rule being supposedly broken - despite the fact this is actually one of the fictious rules some mods seem to like trying to enforce.

The rule was that of avatar size, having been a member on this forum a very long time, i have archived the platinum rank (twice in total) before the post requirements for it were moved. My avatar was uploaded back when that limit was 5000 posts.

The avatar stayed on my account for more than a year while my post count was under the boundary needed without comment - This is fair in my opinion as taking away a privilege someone has already earned seems a little harsh.

Suddenly a certain super mod decided this should no longer be the case and asked me to alter the size of it. Rather than kick up a fuss i decided to comply and conferring with a manager agreed to apply for the 3 months free VIP gained from being here 5 years. I was advised to contact Jin whom i am yet to get hold of.

Now this certain mod has decided that there was a magic time limit of 24 hours (which had never before this been mentioned) Since i have not yet managed to contact jin. They took matters in to there own hands and removed my avatar and gave me a warning.

... So guess what, i'm going to kickup a fuss. I name no names, but will provide them to appropriate staff if required and i'm happy for those involve to come forward and try and explain themselves.

I'd rather do this in a public forum as it seems certain staff still seem to be in the habbit of making rules up whenever they think there in the safty of Private Messaging which cant be posted on the forum without breaking an actual rule, thus can be hidden...

So what will i dispute?

The 24 hour time limit
Take a look though the rules... i dont see this one there?

Communication
This issue was passed up to a higher member of staff at my request. I discussed the issue with this staff member and came to an agreement.
The mod decided obviously there was no point checking with the guy he passed the issue on to - that would make no sense?

Avatar size limit itself
This rule does not and has NEVER existed. It is totally made up.
Gaining a user-rank allows you to set an avatar to a larger size. Having achieved this i did set my avatar to this size.
There is NO rule that says i should ever have to resize it if the rankings are changed to the point i no long have this rank.
There is NO rule that says i cannot have an avatar as large as i had it - regardless of rank of vip status


And what's my big gripe?
My avatar was removed from failing to comply with a non-existent rule within a non-existent time frame.

Whats more i even agreed, just to be nice, to follow this fictional rule. I agreed to apply for the VIP status i have earned from my time here. I had agreed this with the super mod's superior.

I request the warning remove, my avatar put back (as i am no longer able to do this myself due to the size constraints added when setting it)

I also would like to request mods and super mods especially be forced to actually read the rules once in a while. Equally to take in to account that when you pass an issue on to someone, chances are, they may actually do somthing about it themselves.

Bit of a rant, but the story can be confirmed easily enough by admins, and the rules are easily found within the FAQ if anyone what's to check the validity of my claims. I see this a massive abuse of powers by said member (seeing as there power was used to enforce a rule they made up) and a failing in the moderation proccess that needs to be looked in to.

Thankyou,
Mentor

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Quote:

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The 24 hour time limit
Take a look though the rules... i dont see this one there?

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I will give it to you that it does not say anywhere to the public that you have 24 hours to remove it. I think this is a thing we may have to include to stop any confusion. Although the rule states for the Super Moderators that the user has up to 24 hours to remove any oversized avatar and signature. (That's if they have been online)

Quote:

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Communication
This issue was passed up to a higher member of staff at my request. I discussed the issue with this staff member and came to an agreement.
The mod decided obviously there was no point checking with the guy he passed the issue on to - that would make no sense?

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It did indeed get passed on, I said that the Super Moderator summed it up and that your avatar was still over the current limits. Once you replied back, I mentioned that your usergroup got changed from Platinum > Emerald because it didn't match up. (Which I did say if it was a mistake, let me know and I will see what I could do). I did indeed tell you to contact Jin regarding the Gold VIP for 3 months for users being on forum for over 5 years due to Nvrspk4 not really being around, who first started it. Although, I never did say it was an alternative and that your avatar should stay.

Quote:

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Avatar size limit itself
This rule does not and has NEVER existed. It is totally made up.
Gaining a user-rank allows you to set an avatar to a larger size. Having achieved this i did set my avatar to this size.
There is NO rule that says i should ever have to resize it if the rankings are changed to the point i no long have this rank.
There is NO rule that says i cannot have an avatar as large as i had it - regardless of rank of vip status

---

There are rules regarding Avatar and Signatures in the FAQ. This can be found at two places:

1. http://habboxforum.com/faq.php?faq=n..._userpostranks

2. http://habboxforum.com/faq.php?faq=n...aq_item_avatar

Regarding your user-rank, I explained above which is most likely causing the avatar issue.

"What is the set avatar size for a Habbox member?" I would of thought that meant that there is a set size for different ranks. Then it also mentions VIP sizes.

Quote:

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My avatar was removed from failing to comply with a non-existent rule within a non-existent time frame.

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It's not a non-existent rule, I would say it might be a rule that isn't full on clear to some members but from what I remember, it's been like this for a while. Just the ranking system has been changed over the years but hasn't changed since.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 00chips

Erm... -cough-

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For over a year now the userranks have been set at what there are.
The reason this has not been an issue is because Mentor has had VIP for the majority of this time.

The way i always followed was that if that member had come online to the forum and logged in after the PM to remove had been sent then they got a warning and so on. Never 24 hours as people come and go as they wish.

I think it should be changed to 48 hours as its possible a user could have come online for minutes to check a thread and didnt check their PM.

Also it would be a good idea to clearly state the time limit on the PM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsui

The way i always followed was that if that member had come online to the forum and logged in after the PM to remove had been sent then they got a warning and so on. Never 24 hours as people come and go as they wish.

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We still follow that principle, however usually they would be online before 24 hours after the PM, but we believe it's only fair that we give a user time to get round to doing it, therefore if they have been online within 24 hours of the PM this is what you could call a fair time.

Obviously if it's 24 hours after the PM and they haven't been online, no warning would be issued until they have come online (only if then they had still failed to remove the avatar).

Sounds like a communication fail, calling it power abuse is a bit mad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saurav

I will use a perfect example:

Laws in real life change all time time e.g. smoking ban in public areas. You have to keep up-to-date with the rules and follow them.
If you didn't temporarily remove it after the Super Moderator's warning, its your fault.

I believe it is you who should read the rules from time to time.

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Here are the rules: http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?f...aq_rules_forum
Feel free to read them :)

Its like if a police office comes up to you and says its illegal not to give him a £5. Then arrests him when you dont and point out there is no such law.

If they did that people wouldnt be "oh noes, you should read the lawz moar. The police officer was obviously right"

I am the one who has read the rules and has actually looked at what they say, not invincible. I read them through a few times in fact while creating my original post. Feel free to confirm that :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MattGarner

I will give it to you that it does not say anywhere to the public that you have 24 hours to remove it. I think this is a thing we may have to include to stop any confusion. Although the rule states for the Super Moderators that the user has up to 24 hours to remove any oversized avatar and signature. (That's if they have been online)

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Quote:

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It did indeed get passed on, I said that the Super Moderator summed it up and that your avatar was still over the current limits. Once you replied back, I mentioned that your usergroup got changed from Platinum > Emerald because it didn't match up. (Which I did say if it was a mistake, let me know and I will see what I could do). I did indeed tell you to contact Jin regarding the Gold VIP for 3 months for users being on forum for over 5 years due to Nvrspk4 not really being around, who first started it. Although, I never did say it was an alternative and that your avatar should stay.

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If i had that VIP my avatar would be allowed to stay though. Thus i consider my attempt to obtain it as part of fixing the issue.

even if i had brought vip then and there chances are my avatar would still have been removed before it came though. Inadequate time was provided in order to do this.

Equally, when it comes down to it as far as the rules go. I'm allowed the avatar anyway

Quote:

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There is rules regarding Avatar and Signatures in the FAQ. Which can be found at two places:

1. http://habboxforum.com/faq.php?faq=n..._userpostranks

2. http://habboxforum.com/faq.php?faq=n...aq_item_avatar

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Link one contains information on what avatar sizes you can set while in a group. This is a limit imposed by the forum software.
It does not mention that if you are no longer in this group, your avatar should be removed, nore that it is against the rules to retain the avatar.
Equally it at no point mentions a rule reguarding avatar size at all, it only tells you the sizes you can set while in groups.

The second link contains the same information and has the same limits.

Neather state;
Any rule regarding size of avatar
Any rule requiring avatars be resized when group changes

Quote:

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Regarding your user-rank, I explained above which is most likely causing the avatar issue.

"What is the set avatar size for a Habbox member?" I would of thought that meant that there is a set size for different ranks. Then it also mentions VIP sizes.

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They are the sizes you can set when in a particular rank. I do not see how this implys even loosely it should then require changing when you change usergroup.

Quote:

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It's not a non-existent rule, I would say it might be a rule that isn't full on clear to some members but from what I remember, it's been like this for a while. Just the ranking system has been changed over the years but hasn't changed since.

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Its a rule that is not listed in the rules?
Its a rule thats never referred to as a rule?
Its a rule that has never been stated?
I've been on the forum a very long time, i'ts changed a good few times that i am aware of. I fail to see the significance of how long ago these changes happened, when my avatar still pre-dates them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Professor

Sounds like a communication fail, calling it power abuse is a bit mad.

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The rule does not exist. Hence the enforcing of it can be interpreted as nothing else?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

Avatar size limit itself
This rule does not and has NEVER existed. It is totally made up.

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http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?f...aq_item_avatar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

Gaining a user-rank allows you to set an avatar to a larger size. Having achieved this i did set my avatar to this size.
There is NO rule that says i should ever have to resize it if the rankings are changed to the point i no long have this rank.
There is NO rule that says i cannot have an avatar as large as i had it - regardless of rank of vip status

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A change of rules does actually mean that you have to comply with the new ones, regardless of what was the case before.

I'd really like to agree with you but you don't actually have a winning point here. The 24 hour thing is a kinda minor issue considering you didn't have to be given any time at all - I've had avatars removed and only been PMd afterwards in the past, and my late great usertitle of "I hate fat people" which was on for a few weeks was randomly taken out without so much as a note as to it being done, but it's quite easy to move on from such things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

They are the sizes you can set when in a particular rank. I do not see how this implys even loosely it should then require changing when you change usergroup.

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Because you're not in the same usergroup any more, clearly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?f...aq_item_avatar

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Again, this is not listed in the forum rules.
All this states if what sizes can be set from specific user groups
No mention is made to what should happen if you move to a differnt user group than the one you were originally in.
It does not say nore imply you cannot keep an avatar you add when in one of these groups

Quote:

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A change of rules does actually mean that you have to comply with the new ones, regardless of what was the case before.

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Yet the rule is not listed as a rule? even now?

Quote:

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I'd really like to agree with you but you don't actually have a winning point here. The 24 hour thing is a kinda minor issue considering you didn't have to be given any time at all - I've had avatars removed and only been PMd afterwards in the past, and my late great usertitle of "I hate fat people" which was on for a few weeks was randomly taken out without so much as a note as to it being done, but it's quite easy to move on from such things.

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This is an avatar i've had here a very long time, and i was removed for a reason that has no basis in the rules.
The change to vip solution was only offered as i didnt really want to bother having to point this out. But since it was ignored, here i am pointing out. the rules do not include any rule mention avatar sizes.

In addition to the fact the avatar rules make no mention nore impliction of being rules. The fact they do not exist in rules page - nore are linked, but instead as FAQ style answers as would be expected in an faq, leads me to believe these probably are just FAQ's not rules at all. They are only being brough up as it is clear this rule, does not, nore has ever - existed.

Quote:

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Forum Rules and Terms and Conditions - Last Updated 14th November 2009

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Suggests to me that anything past that link are Rules or terms & conditions....

Like I said, it's implied by the fact that you aren't in that usergroup any more. I'm not a manager any more so I don't get to make community decisions and have certain perms, even though I used to. I used to get trains cheap for being young but that's not the case now either so I have to adapt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

Here are the rules: http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?f...aq_rules_forum
Feel free to read them :)

Its like if a police office comes up to you and says its illegal not to give him a £5. Then arrests him when you dont and point out there is no such law.

If they did that people wouldnt be "oh noes, you should read the lawz moar. The police officer was obviously right"

I am the one who has read the rules and has actually looked at what they say, not invincible. I read them through a few times in fact while creating my original post. Feel free to confirm that :)




If i had that VIP my avatar would be allowed to stay though. Thus i consider my attempt to obtain it as part of fixing the issue.

even if i had brought vip then and there chances are my avatar would still have been removed before it came though. Inadequate time was provided in order to do this.

Equally, when it comes down to it as far as the rules go. I'm allowed the avatar anyway


Link one contains information on what avatar sizes you can set while in a group. This is a limit imposed by the forum software.
It does not mention that if you are no longer in this group, your avatar should be removed, nore that it is against the rules to retain the avatar.
Equally it at no point mentions a rule reguarding avatar size at all, it only tells you the sizes you can set while in groups.

The second link contains the same information and has the same limits.

Neather state;
Any rule regarding size of avatar
Any rule requiring avatars be resized when group changes


They are the sizes you can set when in a particular rank. I do not see how this implys even loosely it should then require changing when you change usergroup.


Its a rule that is not listed in the rules?
Its a rule thats never referred to as a rule?
Its a rule that has never been stated?
I've been on the forum a very long time, i'ts changed a good few times that i am aware of. I fail to see the significance of how long ago these changes happened, when my avatar still pre-dates them?

The rule does not exist. Hence the enforcing of it can be interpreted as nothing else?

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The first link I posted contains all the information you would want to know about each rank on the forum. Once you move one to another, you can have bigger avatars and so on. The rank you are currently in is a maximum of 140x140. Your avatar was 150x150. Which you have been told about. This is hardly power abusing at all which you are relating to the SMod's work.

You may have a point that it is not under: (which will be changed)

Quote:

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B2. Signatures/Avatars

• Member signature images may not exceed 700 pixels (width) x 150 pixels (height) in size
• Donator signature images may not exceed 700 pixels x 300 pixels in total size
• Signature font size may not be bigger than 4

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But your avatar was still oversized.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by invincible

Suggests to me that anything past that link are Rules or terms & conditions....

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100% agree.

But if you actually take a look, you'll notice only two mentions of avatars within it.

One says:

You are, however, allowed to post pictures of yourself, although they are NOT allowed in your avatar or signature.

the second:

B2. Signatures/Avatars
Member signature images may not exceed 700 pixels (width) x 150 pixels (height) in size
Donator signature images may not exceed 700 pixels x 300 pixels in total size
Signature font size may not be bigger than 4


So where exactly on this page does it say i cant have a 150*150 avatar? i must have missed it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

Its like if a police office comes up to you and says its illegal not to give him a £5. Then arrests him when you dont and point out there is no such law.

If they did that people wouldnt be "oh noes, you should read the lawz moar. The police officer was obviously right"

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In all honesty, that example is nothing like the scenario here.

The rules state the avatar size you can have if you are in a certain group. It means if you move up or down to that group, you must only have the maximum size avatar which is listed for that group.
It is your job to update your avatar size when your user group changes.

In all honesty, its basic common sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MattGarner

The first link I posted contains all the information you would want to know about each rank on the forum. Once you move one to another, you can have bigger avatars and so on. The rank you are currently in is a maximum of 140x140. Your avatar was 150x150. Which you have been told about. This is hardly power abusing at all which you are relating to the SMod's work.

You may have a point that it is not under: (which will be changed)



But your avatar was still oversized.

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I never claimed my avatars size was not over the limit the forum software allows my user group to set.

My point is, that there is no rule against this.

Thus removing my avatar plus warning more for this is an abuse of power. I cannot be punished for breaking a rule that does not exist.
FAQ's on the subject of what is available for user groups to set does not constitute a rule. They have no bearing anyway and if they did, i've already pointed out the lack of anything saying that my avatar image cannot be set in one group then continued when i move in to another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saurav

In all honesty, that example is nothing like the scenario here.

The rules state the avatar size you can have if you are in a certain group. It means if you move up or down to that group, you must only have the maximum size avatar which is listed for that group.
It is your job to update your avatar size when your user group changes.

In all honesty, its basic common sense.

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The rules do not state this. If definition of a rule in this case, is something in the rules telling me i cannot do something.
No rule exists in the rule to that effect.

Thus i am being punished for breaking an non-rule. Which i believe is an abuse of power. I think other staff involved probably realise this, but now its been brought up do not want to admit it.

- We can (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) edit, close/lock, move, duplicated or publish any of your posted content because as soon as it is posted, you are the author of the content, but it becomes property of Habbox UK Forum.

and

- You give us the right (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) to edit, caution, temporarily ban or permanently ban, as well as your IP, or take any other measurements that we feel necessary.


If you refuse to accept that a clear cut guideline in the FAQ can count as rules, just take the above with a glass of water twice a day before meals and the big red mood should fade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mentor

They have no bearing anyway and if they did, i've already pointed out the lack of anything saying that my avatar image cannot be set in one group then continued when i move in to another.

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Using that principle, if I buy VIP, which allows me an avatar of 150x150 and then after 1 month this VIP runs out and I get a PM saying my avatar is too big, I would be able to say "I had the ability to set my avatar as that before, so it should be allowed now i've moved into the normal users usergroup".

And that wouldn't be good at all.

I can see where mentor is coming from, and see why he;d be annoyed. But if the avatar should be removed it should be removed.

What concerns me is this;

- Why has it taken so long for his avatar to be noticed? Is it because he had VIP, because i really don't know. If he did fair enough.

- Is nobody else able to give him his well earned VIP other than jin?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

- We can (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) edit, close/lock, move, duplicated or publish any of your posted content because as soon as it is posted, you are the author of the content, but it becomes property of Habbox UK Forum.

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Yep

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You give us the right (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) to edit, caution, temporarily ban or permanently ban, as well as your IP, or take any other measurements that we feel necessary.

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Yep

The forums a dictatorship, i get that. I'm not disputing it. What i am disputing is that i broke any existing rule. Inforceing a rule that does not exist, is to me, an abuse of power.

If those in charge want to warn me / remove my avatar for fun. yep they are allowed by the terms.

The fact, no rule was broke remains though

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If you refuse to accept that a clear cut guideline in the FAQ can count as rules, just take the above with a glass of water twice a day before meals and the big red mood should fade.

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FAQ article !== rules
Nore were they clear cut. I have read them a good 30 times, they still sound to be simple information telling you what sizes you can physically set while in a group

No mention is ever made to the effect that because I move from one group to another that my avatar now becomes against the rules.

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Originally Posted by invincible

Using that principle, if I buy VIP, which allows me an avatar of 150x150 and then after 1 month this VIP runs out and I get a PM saying my avatar is too big, I would be able to say "I had the ability to set my avatar as that before, so it should be allowed now i've moved into the normal users usergroup".

And that wouldn't be good at all.

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Probably not. But that doesn't actually cause that rule to exist. At current people are fully within the scope of the rules to say just that. If this is wrong, then the rules need updating. Not the people who under the current rules, have not broke any one of them.
The rule being enforced does not exist at this point in time. If this is a rule that habbox wish's to enforce, then it should be added to the rule. Punishing me for a rule though, just because in the future it may exist, still seems a little messed up.

The fact of the matter is no rule states i cannot have the avatar i had.

I'm pretty sure most of you actually acknowledge this and are just active defensivly now.

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Originally Posted by Smits

I can see where mentor is coming from, and see why he;d be annoyed. But if the avatar should be removed it should be removed.

What concerns me is this;

- Why has it taken so long for his avatar to be noticed? Is it because he had VIP, because i really don't know. If he did fair enough.

- Is nobody else able to give him his well earned VIP other than jin?

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Mentor not that long ago was in the "Platinum" group. Which lets users have 150x150 avatar. Although his posts and so on never matched up so he got put down a level to "Emerald". If I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by Mentor

The rules do not state this. If definition of a rule in this case, is something in the rules telling me i cannot do something.
No rule exists in the rule to that effect.

Thus i am being punished for breaking an non-rule. Which i believe is an abuse of power. I think other staff involved probably realise this, but now its been brought up do not want to admit it.

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The rules state that you can only have such and such avatar size in such a user group. It is your job to make sure you follow the rules and update your avatar size accordingly.
I can see where you are coming from saying you earned it before, but in this case you are wrong, not the Forum staff. The rules and settings have changed and so you need to follow them.

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Nore were they clear cut. I have read them a good 30 times, they still sound to be simple information telling you what sizes you can physically set while in a group

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Again, its very basic common sense, if the rules change, you need to follow them and update your settings accordingly. Otherwise there would be 600 lines for each rule if they were to use your way of thinking :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Saurav

The rules state that you can only have such and such avatar size in such a user group. It is your job to make sure you follow the rules and update your avatar size accordingly.
I can see where you are coming from saying you earned it before, but in this case you are wrong, not the Forum staff. The rules and settings have changed and so you need to follow them.



Again, its very basic common sense, if the rules change, you need to follow them and update your settings accordingly.

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Please show me this rule. Because i've looked and so far your the only person here who has found it.

At best others have found faq articles which do not say anything to the effect of me not being able to retain my avatar anyway.

if you found a rule. please post it, then i will admit i'm wrong an apologise.

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Originally Posted by Saurav

In all honesty, that example is nothing like the scenario here.

The rules state the avatar size you can have if you are in a certain group. It means if you move up or down to that group, you must only have the maximum size avatar which is listed for that group.
It is your job to update your avatar size when your user group changes.

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No, it says that you can change your Avatar to that size when you're in that user group, it says nothing about removing it when it's larger than you can make it any more.

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I have read them a good 30 times, they still sound to be simple information telling you what sizes you can physically set while in a group

No mention is ever made to the effect that because I move from one group to another that my avatar now becomes against the rules

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That's fair enough but surely if you were allowed to have any sized avatar, in any user group, then you would be able to create the maximum in any user group, rather than specific sizes for specific groups.

Don't get me wrong i can see where your ocming from, it doesn't state that you're not allowed to have a certain sized avatar, but i think most people make the assumption from those guidelines.

I don't really see why this is such a big deal, i really wanna see this avatar now, must be a corker.

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Originally Posted by Smits

I can see where mentor is coming from, and see why he;d be annoyed. But if the avatar should be removed it should be removed.

What concerns me is this;

- Why has it taken so long for his avatar to be noticed? Is it because he had VIP, because i really don't know. If he did fair enough.

- Is nobody else able to give him his well earned VIP other than jin?

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For the majority of the part here, it is because mentor has been Black VIP for the majority of this year, which meant his avatar was above board :)

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Originally Posted by MattGarner

Mentor not that long ago was in the "Platinum" group. Which lets users have 150x150 avatar. Although his posts and so on never matched up so he got put down a level to "Emerald". If I remember correctly.

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This has been the case over the past few weeks, a moderator reported the avatar and the fact his usertitle read "Platinum member" although the user did not appear to meet the requirements for this usergroup therefore after a thorough investigation he was put down to the group he should be in, several days later he was contacted in reference to the avatar.

I personally believe Mentor has had VIP since before the usergroup limits changed, and this is why when his VIP ran out his usergroup was "Platinum Member", however as Saurav and FlyingJesus have said, rules change overtime and we have to comply to the latest regulations :)

i think it was just some cartoon

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Originally Posted by Smits

I don't really see why this is such a big deal, i really wanna see this avatar now, must be a corker.

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It's one fine avatar, I'll tell you that.

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we have to comply to the latest regulations

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Which mean he has to have his avatar removed because?

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Originally Posted by Mentor

Please show me this rule. Because i've looked and so far your the only person here who has found it.

At best others have found faq articles which do not say anything to the effect of me not being able to retain my avatar anyway.

if you found a rule. please post it, then i will admit i'm wrong an apologise.

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Rules, FAQ, whats the difference, seriously :S You are simply nitpicking.

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Originally Posted by FAQ

What is the set avatar size for a Habbox member?
The set avatar size for a habbox member is 90 (Width) x 100 (Height) The new ranking system consists of a new avatar and signature system too. Here are the avatar sizes for the following ranks:
Bronze rank - 90 x 100
Silver rank - 105 x 105
Gold rank - 110 x 110
Ruby rank - 120 x 120
Sapphire rank - 130x130
Emerald rank - 140x140
Platinum rank - 150 x 150

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I think that's clear enough. As a Emerald, you cant have a avatar size higher than 140x140, simple as.

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Originally Posted by 00chips

No, it says that you can change your Avatar to that size when you're in that user group, it says nothing about removing it when it's larger than you can make it any more.

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If one usergroup has a maximum limit of 150x150 and then another usergroup has a maximum limit of 140x140 I think that's pretty self evident if you move usergroups you must comply to these limits?

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Originally Posted by invincible

If one usergroup has a maximum limit of 150x150 and then another usergroup has a maximum limit of 140x140 I think that's pretty self evident if you move usergroups you must comply to these limits?

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It's not a maximum limit, it's a maximum which you can set to.

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For the majority of the part here, it is because mentor has been Black VIP for the majority of this year, which meant his avatar was above board

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Ahh right, then there was no issue before with the avatar.

It's clear that Mentor is basing his case on the fact that the only written rule regarding avatar size is

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Note: The maximum size of your custom image is 150 by 150 pixels or 58.6 KB (whichever is smaller).

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I think a basic solution would be to add the note about user groups affecting avatar sizes under this, and therefore there is no more issue.

I know Mentor also suggested that if the rules are updated then they should not be enforced retrospectively, but with something like this i think they should. Afterall, having one or two people who are not affected by the rule, could easily cause confusion for newer members.

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It's not a maximum limit, it's a maximum which you can set to.

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True, but why would it be a maximum at which you can set to, if it didn't really apply anyway, because you can technically have a 150 x 150 sized avatar anyway. I think it's obvious that when those guidelines were written, they were meant to act as a rule, and not just imformation.

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Originally Posted by Smits

That's fair enough but surely if you were allowed to have any sized avatar, in any user group, then you would be able to create the maximum in any user group, rather than specific sizes for specific groups.

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I'm not sure i follow. if a group has a max of 130, then the forum will resize any avatar uploaded which is bigger, till it fits.
My avatar was set when i was in a higher usergroup (which i qualified for under the requirements of it when i fist archived it) I then set that as my avatar and it was not resized.

I then did not update it when my usergroup was adjusted.
Since no rule states i should, i saw no reason to.

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Don't get me wrong i can see where your ocming from, it doesn't state that you're not allowed to have a certain sized avatar, but i think most people make the assumption from those guidelines.

I don't really see why this is such a big deal, i really wanna see this avatar now, must be a corker.

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I've had it forever, and its not so much about my avatar as it is the fact that a rule has been inforced which does not exists - and i disagree completely that a max avatar size settable in a given group classifies as something i should have assumed meant i cannot have an avatar over that size and that this is a rule.

I've had multiple issues before where rules that do not exist have been applied to me. If i let it go, they'll just keep doing it to other people. So i'm chooseing to make the point.

If they wish they can update the rules, but at current the rule simply does not exist.