Praying and How It Helps (Or Most likely Doesn't)

[Dan2nd]

Actually i was calling Ezzie stupid, id given you credit for actually being able to comprehend a simple logical argument, but see how you decided to completely ignore everything i just said, i may have misjudged "/
The only thing worse that stupidty is self inflicted ignorance, and ignoreing and blanking out any views that challenge your own, becuse you subcounsily know your probably wrong, and are just attempting to delude yourself is exsacty that, whats more its pathetic.

If your not going to debate, dont join a debate. The people i get annoied at are those whom enter a debate they fail to enter any form of rebuttle against an agrument, and make stupid clames without bothing to actualy read whats been said.

Ok fair enough =]

It wasnt supposed to be funny, its literally true. Were you actually Seriously trying to say the argument i present does not exist? Do you understand what the word exists means?

Lol but it made me laugh

[Ezzie.]

Entor, I'm not trying to come up as ignorant, I have this illness that makes me get "brain fog" which kind of makes me muddle words up and go discombobulated, so bare with me

I'll start again, Ok basically the argument between no-God and pro-God still stands.

I believe prayer is a good thing to have, self meditation of sorts that lets you get in with your spirituallity side, getting into contact with God might soothe the mind and might come up with some answers.. but to be honest I'm not atall sure prayer really works. My dad was dieing and i just put my heart into praying for him to get well, it was unanswered, I understand that a God wouldn't answer selfish prayers asking for material things or things that can be fixed but come on, what i prayed for was un selfish.. I'm starting to babble now -.-

Genesis says that it is the fault of Adam and Eve that we were cast into a mortal world where we experience pain,suffering, etc. But where is the line drawn?

You look at Africa and other 3rd world countries and you see all the children suffering, going through such pain and suffering, surely God would step in to end it? I know they will go to heaven or some other religous haven (religously speaking) but when one ascends there do they remember what had happened before their death?

So pretty much, what is the point of prayer if they go unanswered? If every person prayed all at the same time, what would happen? Most likely nothing, maybe somthing.. It seems prayer is only for medidation purposes or to ease the mind of worries.

[Mentor]

I believe prayer is a good thing to have, self meditation of sorts that lets you get in with your spirituallity side, getting into contact with God might soothe the mind and might come up with some answers.. but to be honest I'm not atall sure prayer really works. My dad was dieing and i just put my heart into praying for him to get well, it was unanswered, I understand that a God wouldn't answer selfish prayers asking for material things or things that can be fixed but come on, what i prayed for was un selfish.. I'm starting to babble now -.-

But whether or not your wish was selfish or not, God being all powerful would have already made the perfect desision, although most people would disagree, the church istelf puts it down to "gods greater plan" that in reality it is a good thing, we just cant yet understand the true nature of the action.
Since god already made the correct and perfect desion, preying to him to change this, would have to be asking god to do somthing wrong and less perfect, all be it only in terms of the "greater good" ideal. Hence god would have to take the good action (which is for the greated good) rather than takeing the action, most people would see as good, as it would actualy be the worse one.

Personaly i dont agree with much of it, but it is what nessarly follows from the definition. My own belife is that god is irrelivent, and it is down to humanity to fix these problems, hence why things that could have killed us 50 years ago are now harmless due to immunastion and better medical technolgy. The human genome will vastly improve are abiltys here again, allowing US to save more human life. But this view neglects any involment from an active god, hence could not fit with the christan idea of god.

Genesis says that it is the fault of Adam and Eve that we were cast into a mortal world where we experience pain,suffering, etc. But where is the line drawn?

Did god not do the greater sin? After all he being omniscient knew what action we would choose, when he presented us with the choice, haveing created us in such a way that would lead to us doing so, and haveing presented it also in a way that would lead to that act. We only choose to eat the apple becuse god made us so we would choose it.

You look at Africa and other 3rd world countries and you see all the children suffering, going through such pain and suffering, surely God would step in to end it? I know they will go to heaven or some other religous haven (religously speaking) but when one ascends there do they remember what had happened before their death?

I again, dont belive there is a god, hence suffering is a problem humanity must tackel. The other question you asked is a theological one, and my knowlage of the christan concept of heven is far more limited, in the medieval perior it was belived that you loose all memoerys when you go to hevern, but the church is often prone to chaneing its opinion on such matters "/

So pretty much, what is the point of prayer if they go unanswered? If every person prayed all at the same time, what would happen? Most likely nothing, maybe somthing.. It seems prayer is only for medidation purposes or to ease the mind of worries.

I agree with your last sentence, as my argument is only that asking god for somthing in preyer is pointless, prayer in relation of spirtual enlightenment, mediation and easing the mind on the other hand is a wholely separate matter, and is also included in a number of complety non-religious activitys, so must offer some form of benift due to its wide spread adoptio, entire religions are based on such things allown (buddism for example)

Anyway, much better post, and you did state your opinion and what you belive, and in this case, i do agree with much of it, Although in due to a cronic lack of sleep chances are most of my own agrument doesnt make sence in this post "/

[Ezzie.]

But whether or not your wish was selfish or not, God being all powerful would have already made the perfect desision, although most people would disagree, the church istelf puts it down to "gods greater plan" that in reality it is a good thing, we just cant yet understand the true nature of the action.
Since god already made the correct and perfect desion, preying to him to change this, would have to be asking god to do somthing wrong and less perfect, all be it only in terms of the "greater good" ideal. Hence god would have to take the good action (which is for the greated good) rather than takeing the action, most people would see as good, as it would actualy be the worse one.

Hmm this is where personal beliefs take into account, i personally believe God justs lets everyone get on with it, humans have to tackle their own problems and issues, why would God want some spoilt brat in heaven?
But if you take this into more thought then you would have to consider God not bothering much about mortal sin, which could mean that when one dies God just welcomes them whether they were a sinner or not in real life.

Personaly i dont agree with much of it, but it is what nessarly follows from the definition. My own belife is that god is irrelivent, and it is down to humanity to fix these problems, hence why things that could have killed us 50 years ago are now harmless due to immunastion and better medical technolgy. The human genome will vastly improve are abiltys here again, allowing US to save more human life. But this view neglects any involment from an active god, hence could not fit with the christan idea of god.

Hmm yeah, have you ever seen stargate sg1? I like their idea of how there is a bunch of "pretend" Gods that ruled through fear and superstition *hell anyone?* But behind all this big farse there is some sort of godly / super intelligent being.

Did god not do the greater sin? After all he being omniscient knew what action we would choose, when he presented us with the choice, haveing created us in such a way that would lead to us doing so, and haveing presented it also in a way that would lead to that act. We only choose to eat the apple becuse god made us so we would choose it.

See that's where genesis is flawed. Why would God make man if he knew that man would commit a fatal sin? God looks at us as children (or so it says in the bible), if you told a younger sister or brother not to touch somthing, what are they going to do? Touch it of course. Humanity can be simplified into two things, curiosity to learn and imagination.

If God made us with theese traits then why did he get the huff over them taking the apple? When i have children i'm not going to cast them into a world of pain and misery if they steal an apple.

God expects us to learn and grow yet he casts us out of Eden because we learnt from the knowledge tree. Tolkiens books are starting to sound a bit more believable than the bible at the moment "/

I again, dont belive there is a god, hence suffering is a problem humanity must tackel. The other question you asked is a theological one, and my knowlage of the christan concept of heven is far more limited, in the medieval perior it was belived that you loose all memoerys when you go to hevern, but the church is often prone to chaneing its opinion on such matters "/

Heaven has so many different aspects, the bible hints it is a city made out of gold, where jewels are everywhere etc. Others believe the tradition in the clouds version etc

I agree with your last sentence, as my argument is only that asking god for somthing in preyer is pointless, prayer in relation of spirtual enlightenment, mediation and easing the mind on the other hand is a wholely separate matter, and is also included in a number of complety non-religious activitys, so must offer some form of benift due to its wide spread adoptio, entire religions are based on such things allown (buddism for example)

Anyway, much better post, and you did state your opinion and what you belive, and in this case, i do agree with much of it, Although in due to a cronic lack of sleep chances are most of my own agrument doesnt make sence in this post "/

Yeah I agree and also i have insomnia too, it sucks ^_^

[Mentor]

Hmm this is where personal beliefs take into account, i personally believe God justs lets everyone get on with it, humans have to tackle their own problems and issues, why would God want some spoilt brat in heaven?

This view isnt really coverd by my argument, but it doesnt need to be, if god "just lets you get on with it" and isnt active or involved in anyway, praying in terms of asking for things is equaly mertitless, since god isnt involved and isnt going to do anything anyway.

But if you take this into more thought then you would have to consider God not bothering much about mortal sin, which could mean that when one dies God just welcomes them whether they were a sinner or not in real life.

The entery requrments to heven are pretty varided, some think as serial killer/rapest can come in freely if he accepts jesus, others think actualy liveing a decent life is whats important, not a belife in god at all, and of cause all thats imbetween. so massive variation.

Hmm yeah, have you ever seen stargate sg1? I like their idea of how there is a bunch of "pretend" Gods that ruled through fear and superstition *hell anyone?* But behind all this big farse there is some sort of godly / super intelligent being.

SG1 is one of my fav tv programs, although lately im prefer the atlantus versions as the new SG1 ones have been pretty poor since they cut out jack.

More on topic, im guessing you mean the Ainchents as the godly being, although in ther series they are simply asseneded beings, although they may exist in a higher plain of existance (technicly thats a contradiction since existance is a state, not a scale) in any case, this doesnt nessarly make them all powerful or good in any way, the orii also assended are evil, and merlins wepon can kill one "/

See that's where genesis is flawed. Why would God make man if he knew that man would commit a fatal sin? God looks at us as children (or so it says in the bible), if you told a younger sister or brother not to touch somthing, what are they going to do? Touch it of course. Humanity can be simplified into two things, curiosity to learn and imagination.

Technicaly thats only one gensis, the other gensis story cuts out alot of the moralty rubbish, and isnt as flawed or pointless. It also cuts out all the men are supior to women, and wiredly enough even though its gensis one, it gets ignored, and people look over to genisis 2 "/

If God made us with theese traits then why did he get the huff over them taking the apple? When i have children i'm not going to cast them into a world of pain and misery if they steal an apple.

God expects us to learn and grow yet he casts us out of Eden because we learnt from the knowledge tree. Tolkiens books are starting to sound a bit more believable than the bible at the moment "/

The tolkin books do actaly include alot of popular mythology, hence much of it at some stage or another was viewed by people as being just as valid as the bible, The tolkins books tended to use the ideas animals, creatures and genral mythology in his fictinal tails. There basis in what is simlar to the current religions is what gives them a semi beliveable fraim work, becuse there written as if the things were real, aka a story that happened to hobbits, not a story about hobbits, as if they were fictios. As is the bible supposedly a story about what happened to jesus, not storys about jesus/god etc.

Heaven has so many different aspects, the bible hints it is a city made out of gold, where jewels are everywhere etc. Others believe the tradition in the clouds version etc

Clouds are just a biproduct of the idea of heven being up, they didnt have to worry about plains of space crafts hitting in to it, so were free to belive heven phiscly existed in the clouds at those times "/
Plus no idea of heven ive come acorss has actualy been particaly appleaing to me perfectly, they all seem very cold, very empty and very pointless, id rather just die, in the proper sence, and let my corps rot away "/

Yeah I agree and also i have insomnia too, it sucks ^_^

Naa i dont have insomnia, id sleep if i had the choice, just last day of collage today, and i had to substitute sleep for cousework in order to get the deadlines...

[Ezzie.]

Some of the descriptions of heaven are very dulll, sounds very ermm "clinical" if that's the appropriate term, I'm reall starting to get into sg1, it's really good, I dunno why they cut jack out :s he was a legend :p

I can't seem to get into Atlantis, some of it's ok I guess but other than that "/

Also i think a godly being or force could be considered to the azguard people, they have tons of power but only use it when it is direly needed, a keeper of the balance (kind of like a godly figure)

[benjamin]

i voted 'i have no opinion on praying'

[chilloutrich]

GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING, HE KNOWS OUR ACTIONS, SO IS PRAYER THEREFORE PRETENTIOUS????????

[JT-Fan]

i pray twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. to me it does work as i have been fortunate in life compared to other people, i have a good education, a home and a family. compared to other people in the world that is a lot.

[Mentor]

i pray twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. to me it does work as i have been fortunate in life compared to other people, i have a good education, a home and a family. compared to other people in the world that is a lot.

Yet so do i and many millions of other people who dont prey? While again many millions who do prey are the ones suffering all over the world?

So i dont understand what thats supposed to prove?