Ireland 'Votes Yes' In EU Treaty Referendum

[Jordy]

Nobody voted the European Union into power, and just like the Communist Party it also forced itself into power.

Our elected government has always had the right to leave the European Union whenever it wants, and it still does have this power. The people of the Soviet Union didn't have any say at all.

There was a referendum to join the "Common market" as it was at the time, it has of course changed it's form and it's aims, however all our governments since joining have maintained it's best to stick with it, otherwise we would have left. In my opinion we should have a referendum on it due to changing so much and there is a clear opposition to it in recent years.

Another reason the EU doesn't want to force referendums onto governments would be because it obviously wants to be as big as possible and include as many as nations as it can, providing they meet it's entry requirements. They believe what they do is the best thing for the countries in it so by forcing referendums on governments, it would threaten it's existence. It's like Microsoft suggesting to people they should consider an Apple Mac or Chelsea telling their fans they should maybe support Arsenal? Much like these examples, the EU doesn't want to risk getting worse or smaller.

[-:Undertaker:-]

pull out the 'stamp on the graves' crap ahaa. referenda don't work and you know it. europe is free. free from fascism, free from genocide, free market, free to make our own decisions. FREE.

Referenda don't work. I accept the first result and i accept the second one. The second one is different because Ireland's circumstances changed, plus they have new guarantees. I don't however doubt that they are influenced by misinformation, which is why i'm against them. Elections are a different kettle of fish as the elections are representative of the people. You should vote on what the parties say they'll do, not what the media say.


I act as if you are stupid because you are. You fail to see what is and what isn't a democracy.

Europe is not free, over 75% of our laws are made in Europe by unelected people, the United Kingdom itself has more cameras than communist China and the European Union has banned all manners of things ranging from lightbulbs to how many milimetres too big our fruit and vegtables can be.

That is not free.

The parties say things in referendums, its as much party orientated as it is media orientated. The elections and referendums are exactly the same, you vote for the option you want. The people of the United Kingdom are not stupid.

I do see what a democracy is, and I challenge you and you decide to opt out of what is and isn't democracy when it suits you and the European Union. If you can't see the European Union is marching towards a federalist superstate then you have no grasp of history, and will have to learn as history unfolds.

Our elected government has always had the right to leave the European Union whenever it wants, and it still does have this power. The people of the Soviet Union didn't have any say at all.

There was a referendum to join the "Common market" as it was at the time, it has of course changed it's form and it's aims, however all our governments since joining have maintained it's best to stick with it, otherwise we would have left. In my opinion we should have a referendum on it due to changing so much and there is a clear opposition to it in recent years.

Another reason the EU doesn't want to force referendums onto governments would be because it obviously wants to be as big as possible and include as many as nations as it can, providing they meet it's entry requirements. They believe what they do is the best thing for the countries in it so by forcing referendums on governments, it would threaten it's existence. It's like Microsoft suggesting to people they should consider an Apple Mac or Chelsea telling their fans they should maybe support Arsenal? Much like these examples, the EU doesn't want to risk getting worse or smaller.

The governments' of the Soviet Union did have the choice, as that is what led to the breakup of the Soviet Union in the 90s' and the final nail in the coffin was when Russia declared itself free from the USSR.

You know aswell as I do that the Common Market was nothing like the European Union, just like when the German people voted in the Nazi Party they would never of predicted Hitler to delclare himself Furher and plunge the world into world war II. The European Union then, as you have just said and proven, does not want people to have a say on its existence because it knows it will lose, and what is that called? - a dictatorship.

The point still stands that you yourself brought up, the Communist Party was never voted in, the European Union was never voted in, Josef Stalin was never elected and neither will Tony Blair be.

[Jordy]

The governments' of the Soviet Union did have the choice, as that is what led to the breakup of the Soviet Union in the 90s' and the final nail in the coffin was when Russia declared itself free from the USSR.

You know aswell as I do that the Common Market was nothing like the European Union, just like when the German people voted in the Nazi Party they would never of predicted Hitler to delclare himself Furher and plunge the world into world war II. The European Union then, as you have just said and proven, does not want people to have a say on its existence because it knows it will lose, and what is that called? - a dictatorship.

The point still stands that you yourself brought up, the Communist Party was never voted in, the European Union was never voted in, Josef Stalin was never elected and neither will Tony Blair be.

What you're saying about the Soviet Union is true, however the governments of the respective states that made up the Soviet Union were not elected, people did not have a say, there were no elections. The European Union is not a country and still won't be after the Treaty. If the European Union was a country and the people didn't get a say in what goes on, that would then be a dictatorship.

Our democratically elected government reserves the right to leave, the EU does not control us, much like any state has the right to leave the USA and the states had the right to leave the USSR (and did).

[-:Undertaker:-]

What you're saying about the Soviet Union is true, however the governments of the respective states that made up the Soviet Union were not elected, people did not have a say, there were no elections. The European Union is not a country and still won't be after the Treaty. If the European Union was a country and the people didn't get a say in what goes on, that would then be a dictatorship.

Our democratically elected government reserves the right to leave, the EU does not control us, much like any state has the right to leave the USA and the states had the right to leave the USSR (and did).

The European Union may not be offically a country, but it does what a country does and will function even more like a country does. The Republic of China (Taiwan) is not offically a country, but we know it basically is.

The Lisbon Treaty will not be the last treaty/reform of the European Union, just watch.

[Jordy]

The European Union may not be offically a country, but it does what a country does and will function even more like a country does. The Republic of China (Taiwan) is not offically a country, but we know it basically is.

The Lisbon Treaty will not be the last treaty/reform of the European Union, just watch.

That is probably true, hence why we should get out while we can. My problem with your posts is how you throw around the words democracy and dictatorship, not your stance on politics or ideologies which I pretty much agree with.

[alexxxxx]

The Lisbon Treaty will not be the last treaty/reform of the European Union, just watch.

Of course it won't be the last treaty/reform of the European Union, just like how our government/system has evolved.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That is probably true, hence why we should get out while we can. My problem with your posts is how you throw around the words democracy and dictatorship, not your stance on politics or ideologies which I pretty much agree with.

A unelected body which is part of the central political system can be classified as a dictatorship, just because it hasn't sent millions to the gas chambers/gulags doesn't mean it can't be classified in the same political system as the Third Reich/USSR.

Of course it won't be the last treaty/reform of the European Union, just like how our government/system has evolved.

Then you have just given the game away, the idea is to create a federal Europe through all these treaties combined. My government evolved like this, my legitamate government of the British Isles, not the illegitamate government of Europe.

[lick]

i got told that the Treaty is self amending and that means they can change it and get rid of our legal guarantees anytime they want.....is this true lol?

[-:Undertaker:-]

i got told that the Treaty is self amending and that means they can change it and get rid of our legal guarantees anytime they want.....is this true lol?

They can and always have done, that is how the European Economic whatever transformed into the European Union. When the European Union puts a treaty forward, it just gives the Union more powers on a different area/level meaning they can override national sovereignty more than they have ever done, hence why over 75% of our laws come from Brussels.

[Sammeth.]

and halt the superstate that nobody wants, forming before our eyes.

apart from the majority of ireland ye?