The BNP - Good or Bad?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Its aimed at teenagers, but many members who join in 2004-2005 aren't now. There are more females in the country than males, I am going to assume you are a female and so is everyone I see on the street.

And he is not shouting directly outside their houses, but what he says is on TV and that is being shown on most TV's in this country, so he indirectly is.

Oh my god are you actually serious with that first line?

He is not saying it outside peoples houses though, and if you see something on television that upsets you (abortion programs, Nick Griffin, surgery programs) then you pick up the remote, and turn the television off.

Even though its not direct and as obvious hatred as racism or homophobia its still going to effect people in the same way is it not? Many older people talk of how they saw their families murdered by the Nazis and their skulls crushed, what gives ANYONE the right to bring this back up and torment them with it saying it never happened.

You know after camps were liberated they took people from the local villages down to view the bodies. It is impossible to say it never happened when there are hundreds of thousands of people who have seen the atrocities first hand and even some who committed it.

I didn't say it never happened, as I agree with you, the holocaust did happen.

[Tash.]

Nick Griffin was not being racist/homophobic at that demonstration as no charges were brought against him, so i'll ask again; is Nick Griffin standing outside peoples' houses shouting the holocaust didn't happen?

And i'll answer again, despite you just quoting my answer :S No, not deliberately. But the fact that he seems to think its ok to state that millions did not die at the hands of the Nazis publicly, he might aswell be shouting at these people because the result is the same.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And i'll answer again, despite you just quoting my answer :S No, not deliberately. But the fact that he seems to think its ok to state that millions did not die at the hands of the Nazis publicly, he might aswell be shouting at these people because the result is the same.

That is his historical opinion, I don't agree with him and neither do you or most other people. It is not my right or your right to take away his right to an opinion on that subject, as long as he is not preaching hatred towards jewish people.

[Seatherny]

Oh my god are you actually serious with that first line?

He is not saying it outside peoples houses though, and if you see something on television that upsets you (abortion programs, Nick Griffin, surgery programs) then you pick up the remote, and turn the television off.

Maybe my examples are extreme, but its exactly what you are doing when you make the statements you have been doing.

Again, when Tash and I explained that I meant 1000 people outside you house IN REAL LIFE, you refused to answer it.

And thats fine, they should turn the TV off. I am going to get all the news channels outside my house tomorrow, say everything bad about you, your family, and you should just ignore it and turn your TV off.

[MrPinkPanther]

I didn't say it never happened, as I agree with you, the holocaust did happen.

But why should people be allowed to continually ruin the lives of holocaust survivors and their families? They are permanently scarred for life. They don't need reminding of that or people saying it never happened.

I'm sorry SauravG but you really aren't helping matters because there are so many flaws in many of your arguments. I agree with Undertaker is some of his responses.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Maybe my examples are extreme, but its exactly what you are doing when you make the statements you have been doing.

Again, when Tash and I explained that I meant 1000 people outside you house IN REAL LIFE, you refused to answer it.

And thats fine, they should turn the TV off. I am going to get all the news channels outside my house tomorrow, say everything bad about you, your family, and you should just ignore it and turn your TV off.

No I would not like people in real life shouting abuse. I have already answered that. On your last sentence, when has Nick Griffin ever done that? :S

But why should people be allowed to continually ruin the lives of holocaust survivors and their families? They are permanently scarred for life. They don't need reminding of that or people saying it never happened.

I'm sorry SauravG but you really aren't helping matters because there are so many flaws in many of your arguments. I agree with Undertaker is some of his responses.

Why should socialist parties be allowed to operate when socialism killed hundreds of millions of people on China, Russia, Eastern Europe, North Korea, Cambodia? - democracy.

I loathe socialism, however I would never ban people from being socialist or having socialist ideas/thoughts.

[Tash.]

That is his historical opinion, I don't agree with him and neither do you or most other people. It is not my right or your right to take away his right to an opinion on that subject, as long as he is not preaching hatred towards jewish people.

He is though, in my opinion it is a form of hatred towards the jewish people to deny that millions of their fellow people died in concentration camps. It's disrespecting their memories and hurting their living descendants.

[Seatherny]

Also you are in full support of the freedom of speech, but you say hatred should not be allowed? But thats just contradicting your argument :S
If freedom of speech should be allowed without limits, so should hatred. Me saying "I hate undertaker" is my opinion and I should be allowed to say what I want But you say hatred should not be allowed, so by that you are saying freedom of speech should have limits

[-:Undertaker:-]

He is though, in my opinion it is a form of hatred towards the jewish people to deny that millions of their fellow people died in concentration camps. It's disrespecting their memories and hurting their living descendants.

That is not hatred, he is merely saying that he does not believe that such a mass murder could of been carried out by the Third Reich. I disagree with him, you disagree with him and a lot of other people disagree with him.

What I don't disagree with is his democratic right for an opinion on an historical event.

Also you are in full support of the freedom of speech, but you say hatred should not be allowed? But thats just contradicting your argument :S
If freedom of speech should be allowed without limits, so should hatred. Me saying "I hate undertaker" is my opinion and I should be allowed to say what I want But you say hatred should not be allowed, so by that you are saying freedom of speech should have limits

I'm in full support of freedom of speech as long as it does not preach hatred, denying the holocaust is not hatred.

[Seatherny]

I'm in full support of freedom of speech as long as it does not preach hatred, denying the holocaust is not hatred.

But your argument is that freedom of speech should not have limits, but you say hatred should not be allowed again and again, but you are just contradicting yourself.
If freedom of speech should have no limits, a person should be allowed to say whatever they want, even if its hatred.