Rare Values needs reform

[Pigperson]

Can I firstly say, it's great to be receiving comments but I don't see why people can't keep them constructive. For example remarks such as close the department is slightly unneeded as we have had this discussion and the polls told us that people still use Rare Values. Constructive criticism does't hurt.

So reading through the replies, a lot of people are confused by the department, so,
How the Rare Values system works currently:

Rare Values Reporters post weekly 7 reports (consisting of 4 different furnis) showing trades which they have seen of each of these furni.

Rare Values Furni Editors are a new addition and after a suggestion from a ex-RVR manager, we felt it a good idea as the backlog of missing furni was getting bigger and we had interest from staff. Also @Samanfa did know, she just wasn't sure when it was going to happen. Maybe we will communicate about issues a bit better in the future. The role is solely to keep the content side of the site up to date by adding furni etc however they have the option to report.

Expert Rare Values Reporters do the same but 10 reports. Tbh I've kinda felt that it was unneeded but I do remember ex RV management having the opinion that a middle rank is needed and I do kinda agree with it as the jump to Head RVR is quit big.

Head Rare Values Reporters are regardless of what people say a very vital role in the department as they are the ones who read over the reports made by other members and actually suggest values because you can't change a value based on just 1 trade.

Management as well as keeping the department together, writing weekly reports etc. we go through the heads' reports each week approving/denying to make sure the values are fairly accurate.

The current problems:
1) Rare Values is based on Habbox.com and it was coded by HotelUser who unfortunately resigned and now not really anyone is sure how to edit things such as perms. Furthermore as we are working on V7, the requests to change V6 have been denied as V7 is starting from scratch. We have requested a huge (like 15) changes but we have to wait till V7 and these are huge changes which change the staff roles to make values more up to date.
2) The marketplace. Whoever wants to go on about how Rare Values is declining, well I wouldn't disagree too much with that as it is true. However people who say it is so much worse in comparison to 2010 is barking up the wrong tree because the marketplace has massively affected the Rare Values department with an alternative source however we strive on providing values when the marketplace is rigged or for values not on the marketplace. Our values may not all be correct but when I joined rare values the valuing of norms was introduced making it very hard to keep everything up to date. However we have had requests to make our values more accurate.

These are the main problems and they create huge difficulties for our job. We have wanted to change the roles around for a while now and have been waiting for V7. We have wanted the heads to be approving/denying values with experts creating the suggestions, and recently the rvr's as well as we feel it would cut out the unnecessary jobs and would mean we get around 150 value updates a week instead of 30. This would improve the accuracy incredibly but we have to wait for the perms to be changed.

If you want to comment, feel free to but just understand that we work so hard and we have worked incredibly hard to try and bring RV back after it's downfall and we do hope that when V7 comes out, it will be very different as we have some news things in progress. I probably forgot to say something but I'll remember it as I read the replies

Will

[-Danube-]

The current problems:
1) Rare Values is based on Habbox.com and it was coded by HotelUser who unfortunately resigned and now not really anyone is sure how to edit things such as perms. Furthermore as we are working on V7, the requests to change V6 have been denied as V7 is starting from scratch. We have requested a huge (like 15) changes but we have to wait till V7 and these are huge changes which change the staff roles to make values more up to date.

Just a quick question, what do you mean by the bolded thing, you don't mean people don't know how to edit the staff permissions for a HRVR? Maybe just barking up the wrong tree as you could be talking about something else here. But if it is staff permissions i can give you a point in the right direction.

And yes, the only reason why i kept the Expert RVR roles is just because it was a stepping stone and a form of motivation for staff. Staff get board easy but if they have the chance to get promoted they try hard, and when you see the are putting in alot of effort you promote them. This gives them an extra boost as they feel valued, then they work even harder to get to HRVR, it was all about motivation. But i feel if you have a massive over hall of the staff structure you could safely remove this extra rank.

Nice to see you've got things up your sleeve, was the Ex-RV manager me who suggested the content role, i know i posted alot in other threads about this? I would hope you would listen to my others ideas too will i love that department and i want it to shine again!

[Pigperson]

Just a quick question, what do you mean by the bolded thing, you don't mean people don't know how to edit the staff permissions for a HRVR? Maybe just barking up the wrong tree as you could be talking about something else here. But if it is staff permissions i can give you a point in the right direction.

And yes, the only reason why i kept the Expert RVR roles is just because it was a stepping stone and a form of motivation for staff. Staff get board easy but if they have the chance to get promoted they try hard, and when you see the are putting in alot of effort you promote them. This gives them an extra boost as they feel valued, then they work even harder to get to HRVR, it was all about motivation. But i feel if you have a massive over hall of the staff structure you could safely remove this extra rank.

Nice to see you've got things up your sleeve, was the Ex-RV manager me who suggested the content role, i know i posted alot in other threads about this? I would hope you would listen to my others ideas too will i love that department and i want it to shine again!

Dan you speak so much wisdom, just wish I had you on MSN

To answer the question, with Hx.com there are difficulties with changing the perms of what each can do as it isn't that simple without HotelUser and as we use Hx.com a lot, it poses problems.

I do agree that expert provides motivation and that's why we kept it as it seems like a good stepping stone but like you said, I think we can easily remove it.

Will

[-Danube-]

Sadly i don't use MSN anymore

If i'm around when you have a meeting and if it'd be allowed, i wouldn't mind coming in for a chat and putting a few ideas forward for RV.

Yeah all HotelUser set out was 3 forms of permissions for Rare Values on Habbox.com.

Basically you put the staff member in the "Rare Values Reporter" usergroup and they can see all the RV stuff and it allows them to send a report in.

You then add the person into the 'Senior Rare Values Reporter' and they can access the Rare Value Manager which allows them to update actual values and do other things, but before these changes go live it has to be approved by a Manager.

Then there is the Rare Values Manager usergroup which basically gives you access to do everything.

Thats as far as it goes with permissions. I don't know what else you were looking to do but thats all that can be done unless it was edited further, and like you said, without David it's pretty useless.

Just get yourself prepared and ready for V7 and only launch when everything is done. I know i had loads of ideas for V6 that never got done when we launched, they were always promised but never came, i think that held us back more.

[Pigperson]

Sadly i don't use MSN anymore

If i'm around when you have a meeting and if it'd be allowed, i wouldn't mind coming in for a chat and putting a few ideas forward for RV.

Yeah all HotelUser set out was 3 forms of permissions for Rare Values on Habbox.com.

Basically you put the staff member in the "Rare Values Reporter" usergroup and they can see all the RV stuff and it allows them to send a report in.

You then add the person into the 'Senior Rare Values Reporter' and they can access the Rare Value Manager which allows them to update actual values and do other things, but before these changes go live it has to be approved by a Manager.

Then there is the Rare Values Manager usergroup which basically gives you access to do everything.

Thats as far as it goes with permissions. I don't know what else you were looking to do but thats all that can be done unless it was edited further, and like you said, without David it's pretty useless.

Just get yourself prepared and ready for V7 and only launch when everything is done. I know i had loads of ideas for V6 that never got done when we launched, they were always promised but never came, i think that held us back more.

Yeh I know what you mean. I really have big hopes for V7 though because we have requested a lot of changes that really should be successful. As of now before V7, we will look into changing the roles around.

Will

[Fifty-Six]

One question I've always had with the Rare Values here is, do norms really need to be in the values list? I feel like having a value on every single furni item is the reason that there can be up to 6 month waits for updates. That's a huge task and, especially with only a few who can edit them directly, clogs up the whole system. I know that HxRV isn't just about Rares, but providing accurate values for all furni in Habbo, but for cheaper, smaller norms, why can't people just use the marketplace? For the big ticket rares like the Dino Egg, Nellies, Thrones, etc I can understand. But shouldn't those be the main focus of the value reporting? It is, after all, called Rare Values.

Just my two cents.

[Dean]

One question I've always had with the Rare Values here is, do norms really need to be in the values list? I feel like having a value on every single furni item is the reason that there can be up to 6 month waits for updates. That's a huge task and, especially with only a few who can edit them directly, clogs up the whole system. I know that HxRV isn't just about Rares, but providing accurate values for all furni in Habbo, but for cheaper, smaller norms, why can't people just use the marketplace? For the big ticket rares like the Dino Egg, Nellies, Thrones, etc I can understand. But shouldn't those be the main focus of the value reporting? It is, after all, called Rare Values.

Just my two cents.

It used to be separate, so you'd have Rare Values, Normal Values and Seasonal Values. Now it seems like it's all been merged and maybe they need to separate them again so the bigger priority can be put on Rares?

[-Danube-]

One question I've always had with the Rare Values here is, do norms really need to be in the values list? I feel like having a value on every single furni item is the reason that there can be up to 6 month waits for updates. That's a huge task and, especially with only a few who can edit them directly, clogs up the whole system. I know that HxRV isn't just about Rares, but providing accurate values for all furni in Habbo, but for cheaper, smaller norms, why can't people just use the marketplace? For the big ticket rares like the Dino Egg, Nellies, Thrones, etc I can understand. But shouldn't those be the main focus of the value reporting? It is, after all, called Rare Values.

Just my two cents.

I think the whole consensus here is that we need to develop rare values into something else. In the good old days it was fine to just cover the main 'Rares' and the odd seasonal but now with the marketplace people don't use Habbox for it's values anymore so a different focus for the values needs to be found. This is why i suggested making it like a Furniture Database, a one stop shop on everything about Furni. This should be targetted at everyone and not just the traders. It should be helpful for room builders, people interested in Habbo facts, the normal Habbo and still traders.

It's not hard to keep everything updated if you assigned each reporter a group of categories, this way you could ensure that every item of furni on Habbo gets some kind of update each month. Not just in terms of Values but in terms of Furni Descriptions and Titles (habbo changes them quite alot). Even if nothing changes with an item, the reporter could just save the item as it is now and it will update its 'Last Updated' date and so people know this item is fully up-to-date.

My main argument here is moving away from having values at it's core, but having it more as an informative resource, which they need to look at ideas to make it interative with the public. I added the whole thing of being able to add your own comments to the rares but i don't think it took off really. More things could be added, it's all about user interation and pushing this.



I did suggest before V6 was released that we should have had some kind of feature where you could click like 'Old Style Rare Values' and once someone clicks this it would only show them Normal Rares and Super Rares. It's not a hard thing to do as we did tag every item of furni with a Normal Rare and Super Rare tag.

[Dean]

I think the whole consensus here is that we need to develop rare values into something else. In the good old days it was fine to just cover the main 'Rares' and the odd seasonal but now with the marketplace people don't use Habbox for it's values anymore so a different focus for the values needs to be found. This is why i suggested making it like a Furniture Database, a one stop shop on everything about Furni. This should be targetted at everyone and not just the traders. It should be helpful for room builders, people interested in Habbo facts, the normal Habbo and still traders.

It's not hard to keep everything updated if you assigned each reporter a group of categories, this way you could ensure that every item of furni on Habbo gets some kind of update each month. Not just in terms of Values but in terms of Furni Descriptions and Titles (habbo changes them quite alot). Even if nothing changes with an item, the reporter could just save the item as it is now and it will update its 'Last Updated' date and so people know this item is fully up-to-date.

My main argument here is moving away from having values at it's core, but having it more as an informative resource, which they need to look at ideas to make it interative with the public. I added the whole thing of being able to add your own comments to the rares but i don't think it took off really. More things could be added, it's all about user interation and pushing this.



I did suggest before V6 was released that we should have had some kind of feature where you could click like 'Old Style Rare Values' and once someone clicks this it would only show them Normal Rares and Super Rares. It's not a hard thing to do as we did tag every item of furni with a Normal Rare and Super Rare tag.

I do like this idea but we still need to look at why the rare values haven't been updated in months, don't you think? So shouldn't the department clean everything up and then move onto this new proposed idea?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oohh whats this about Rare Values Editors to help update the prices? is this the same idea I pushed back under 8Freak8 that was knocked straight down without any consideration when I warned that the number of rares was becoming too much for two people to update on their own? is this the same idea that I pushed last year or the year before and was knocked down for despite the problem being even worse? (and then told values weren't being updated, when they actually were - but at least I can say that I never had any complaint threads made about the department at that time with only management having the problem). All that I can say is that i'm glad it's been finally done, around four years too late.

I have pointed this out before, the department back in 2006/2007 was around twenty five people+ .. and yet now it's much less despite the number of rares increasing around tenfold. But then again I say, when I tried to correct this the second time I headed the department, management placed a limit (what for, I do not know) on how many staff members we and other departments could have ... yet another road block. The problem with Habbox departments has always been management, sure it's much better now - but the problem has always been usually management as opposed to the departments themselves meaning that when you have a problem the manager or staff members take the heat for it.. despite being the ones who simply did as they were told, or tried to change things and thus upset those in more senior positions.

Here's it simplified

2006/2007

Staff numbers: around 25
Number of people editing values: 2
Number of rares: 600 odd at most?
Management: blocked any suggestions that more people were needed to update values.

2010ish

Staff numbers: around 15
Number of people editing values: 2
Number of rares: 1,500 to 2,500?
Management: blocked any suggestions that more editors were needed, also placed a limit on staff numbers.

Anyone see the backwardness of it?