Bobby Anwar, Ukip candidate, 'stabbed by Labour supporters'

[The Don]

UKIP technically isn't a racist party - it's just the media jumping to conclusions or individual readers thinking x member made a racial slur therefore the party is racist. It's just the person, not the party. Closer scrutiny of the party manifesto and you just get controlled immigration as a policy - no "they're useless" or "a cause for all things wrong in Britain". The only remark is about Romanians and that's not even in the policies section. The remark is about as useful as the Conservatives saying thousands of people are better off when in reality many thousands of others are living off of food banks or Labour saying they will fix the country despite having a track record of being bad with finances.

UKIP do have other policies but for some reason people lack the time to actually read them.

I would argue that centring a campaign around immigrants and blaming them as the problem fits the definition of racist. "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior"



Implying that jobs in Britain are the property of British people and that the immigrants are stealing them is doing nothing but brewing prejudice thoughts and alienating minorities. The part about the manifesto is not true either because going by that logic if a party campaigns with racist propaganda but leaves out any overt racist content from their manifesto they're not a racist party by your definition.

If you want to debate this feel free to respond to any of my posts in this thread here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=802708 which is specifically about that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ryan, see - you're wasting your time with them. How can you reason with people who believe that 'immigrant' is a racial group? How can you reason with people who by their own logic think you are a racist if you believe that British people should come before other nationalities when it comes to jobs? How can you reason with people who think you're a racist for taking on tough issues such as wage depression or a housing shortage which are caused by open borders?

You can't, they won't be reasoned with until they are one day mugged by reality themselves.

[The Don]

Ryan, see - you're wasting your time with them. How can you reason with people who believe that 'immigrant' is a racial group? How can you reason with people who by their own logic think you are a racist if you believe that British people should come before other nationalities when it comes to jobs? How can you reason with people who think you're a racist for taking on tough issues such as wage depression or a housing shortage which are caused by open borders?

You can't, they won't be reasoned with until they are one day mugged by reality themselves.

I thought you would understand that I was using immigrants to refer to the specific races that have been targeted i.e Romanians and Bulgarians, clearly I gave you too much credit. It's rather easy to blame foreigners for all our problems, even though they are hardly at fault. Putting the housing crisis down to EU immigration is also laughable.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I thought you would understand that I was using immigrants to refer to the specific races that have been targeted i.e Romanians and Bulgarians, clearly I gave you too much credit. It's rather easy to blame foreigners for all our problems, even though they are hardly at fault. Putting the housing crisis down to EU immigration is also laughable.

Romanian and Bulgarian is a nationality, not a race.

And 200,000+ extra people coming into the country every year doesn't affect the housing supply? Hilarious.

[FlyingJesus]

I don't believe it's a racist party, I believe it's a nationalist party run by racists

[The Don]

Romanian and Bulgarian is a nationality, not a race.

And 200,000+ extra people coming into the country every year doesn't affect the housing supply? Hilarious.

Do you think a British Person can be racist to somebody from Scotland? Or an American to the Irish?

And immigrants aren't the root cause of the housing crisis in my opinion, no.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Do you think a British Person can be racist to somebody from Scotland? Or an American to the Irish?

If a black Englishman calls a white Scottish man a 'cracker' then that's racist. If a white American man calls a han-chinese British man a 'yellow something' then that'd be racist. My view of racism is the conventional one: treating people different based on skin colour or insulting somebody in a race-based manner. You seem to be confusing nationalities with race, again.

And immigrants aren't the root cause of the housing crisis in my opinion, no.

Who said anything about the root cause? I simply said that 200,000+ extra people coming in a year will have an affect on housing.

[FlyingJesus]

Nationalities can denote race, (as with the Irish who as a whole have historically been a persecuted group) while skin colour doesn't make people all of a type (such as the Sami of Scandinavia being largely white in appearance yet a completely different race to Greek/Gaulish/Teutonic white Europeans). You're confusing skin colour with race, which oddly enough is itself racist

[GommeInc]

I would argue that centring a campaign around immigrants and blaming them as the problem fits the definition of racist. "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior"



Implying that jobs in Britain are the property of British people and that the immigrants are stealing them is doing nothing but brewing prejudice thoughts and alienating minorities. The part about the manifesto is not true either because going by that logic if a party campaigns with racist propaganda but leaves out any overt racist content from their manifesto they're not a racist party by your definition.

If you want to debate this feel free to respond to any of my posts in this thread here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=802708 which is specifically about that.

Where is the racism? The advertising campaign shows no British superiority nor does it show EU citizen inferiority - obscuring reality to suit your purpose does not a fitting argument make. Saying 26 million Europeans are after your job lacks any degree of quality that remotely resembles racism in any shape or form. It's a mere advertising commentary "puff" which lacks a quality. If anything it I could argue it is flattering - we give them jobs and allow them to have jobs - is that racist? No.

It's as if suddenly the word xenophobia or straight out ignorance (which is often the case with UKIP campaigns) have been forgotten in Britain. We just use the word racism as a blanket term. The party lacks racist policies.

The full local manifesto states:

UKIP stands for much more than opposition to the European Union.
Government at local, national and European level has become too
remote. The political class have forgotten they work for us.
Bureaucrats and professional politicians have taken over and the
people are too often ignored.
UKIP will bring back power to the people. Decisions will be made
locally, common sense policies will make people’s lives easier and
government will do what is needed, but no more.
UKIP believes that :
• Council tax should be as low as possible
• Immigration must be controlled to relieve pressure on our health,
education, housing and welfare services
• Green spaces should be protected - we oppose excessive
housing development, wind farms and HS2
• We need more police on the streets, cracking down on crime and
anti-social behaviour
• Councils should cut highly paid council executives, not front-line
staff and services
• Real decision-making should be given to local communities
• Money should be used for local services, not the EU, foreign aid
and foreign wars

Where is the clearly racist policies? This is a problem that always arises in these discussions - people mention UKIP is a racist party yet when asked where they make it clear they're racist there is simply no answer. Personally I do not support them but I like to think that if I use a word to describe someone it is at the very least accurate to make for any plausible argument.

Officially, UKIP is clearly not a racist party. The media, however and the other parties, label them racist as some sort of smear campaign when any real research and mild digging reveals that actually their policies are nothing more than simple and straightforward for local elections. In fact, they're more sensible than the Conservative^-link manifesto which seems to be:

"Labour and the Lib Dems won't give you say" (false - Labour said if more powers go to Brussels they will and the Lib Dems echoed similar sentiments.
"UKIP can't give you a say" - great policy there...
"Only the Conservatives can and will give you a referendum on Europe" - unlikely seeing as the last promise did not ring true.

[The Don]

Where is the racism? The advertising campaign shows no British superiority nor does it show EU citizen inferiority - obscuring reality to suit your purpose does not a fitting argument make. Saying 26 million Europeans are after your job lacks any degree of quality that remotely resembles racism in any shape or form. It's a mere advertising commentary "puff" which lacks a quality. If anything it I could argue it is flattering - we give them jobs and allow them to have jobs - is that racist? No.

It's as if suddenly the word xenophobia or straight out ignorance (which is often the case with UKIP campaigns) have been forgotten in Britain. We just use the word racism as a blanket term. The party lacks racist policies.

The full local manifesto states:


Where is the clearly racist policies? This is a problem that always arises in these discussions - people mention UKIP is a racist party yet when asked where they make it clear they're racist there is simply no answer. Personally I do not support them but I like to think that if I use a word to describe someone it is at the very least accurate to make for any plausible argument.

Officially, UKIP is clearly not a racist party. The media, however and the other parties, label them racist as some sort of smear campaign when any real research and mild digging reveals that actually their policies are nothing more than simple and straightforward for local elections. In fact, they're more sensible than the Conservative^-link manifesto which seems to be:

"Labour and the Lib Dems won't give you say" (false - Labour said if more powers go to Brussels they will and the Lib Dems echoed similar sentiments.
"UKIP can't give you a say" - great policy there...
"Only the Conservatives can and will give you a referendum on Europe" - unlikely seeing as the last promise did not ring true.

I've clearly said in the thread I linked why I think what I do. Feel free to respond to any of my posts in there because i've had this exact discussion with Dan in the past and he seemingly couldn't give me an answer and instead kept changing the subject. http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...12#post8185712

Also as if Xenophobia (which I recall dan saying was 'made up' and not real) and Racism don't overlap.