EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[-:Undertaker:-]

being together != more powers going to the eu

seriously, how have you got a degree?

being in the EU means more powers going to the EU.

seriously, how can you even make an argument on this when you're seemingly unaware of how EU treaties and law work?

[The Don]

being in the EU means more powers going to the EU.

seriously, how can you even make an argument on this when you're seemingly unaware of how EU treaties and law work?

Wanting to remain in the eu and wanting more powers to go to the eu are not the same things Dan, if you can't understand that simple concept then there's no hope for you.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wanting to remain in the eu and wanting more powers to go to the eu are not the same things Dan, if you can't understand that simple concept then there's no hope for you.

that's like wanting to jump in the swimming pool but not wanting to get wet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquis_communautaire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn...European_Union

for the love of god please read the EU treaties and understand EU law before stating such untruths. the treaties write in them "ever closer union" and it is the principle under which the european courts operate. the rachtet effect in EU law means that once something has gone into EU law, it is almost impossible to unpick it hence how it acquires more powers over time.

they're talking about a political union by 2025 openly and an EU army. yet Akeam says he wants to be in the EU but no more powers going to it. if that's truly what he wanted, then he'd be arguing for EEA membership which offers much of what the EU does but which doesn't have to abide by ever closer union or the acquis law.

he's either a federalist who knows not to say it aloud as unpopular or he's like many remainers and doesn't understand the purpose of the thing he supports.

[The Don]

that's like wanting to jump in the swimming pool but not wanting to get wet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquis_communautaire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn...European_Union

for the love of god please read the EU treaties and understand EU law before stating such untruths. the treaties write in them "ever closer union" and it is the principle under which the european courts operate. the rachtet effect in EU law means that once something has gone into EU law, it is almost impossible to unpick it hence how it acquires more powers over time.

they're talking about a political union by 2025 openly and an EU army. yet Akeam says he wants to be in the EU but no more powers going to it. if that's truly what he wanted, then he'd be arguing for EEA membership which offers much of what the EU does but which doesn't have to abide by ever closer union or the acquis law.

In the most recent poll of polls, 44% of people want the UK to stay part of the EU, that doesn't mean 44% of people want more powers to go to the EU. Wanting to be together with the other people in the EU doesn't mean you want more powers to go to the EU, they are not the same thing. You are wrong.
https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

and where have I said I don't want more powers going to the EU? Stop making things up.

[-:Undertaker:-]

In the most recent poll of polls, 44% of people want the UK to stay part of the EU, that doesn't mean 44% of people want more powers to go to the EU. Wanting to be together with the other people in the EU doesn't mean you want more powers to go to the EU, they are not the same thing. You are wrong.
https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

because the 44% of people are being told by the PM, government and your Remain campaign that no more powers will go to the EU when they will.

if your side campaigned honestly for the reality - and what you seemingly want - of more powers to the EU we'd be out tomorrow and you know it.

and where have I said I don't want more powers going to the EU? Stop making things up.

so you do want more powers to go from national government to the european commission?

[The Don]

I can want to remain part of the EU whilst also not wanting more powers to go to the EU. They are two separate things. You are undeniably wrong. Take a beginners logic class.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I can want to remain part of the EU whilst also not wanting more powers to go to the EU. They are two separate things. You are undeniably wrong. Take a beginners logic class.

no you cannot when the legal system of the EU operates contrary to what you are claiming. sorry dude but i think you know what i am saying is legally sound and politically undeniable but you're just too proud to climb down from your position on this. if you're being truthful that you don't want more powers to go to the European Union and its European institutions which is the position i hold along with the vast majority of the population, then you should be backing either EEA or EFTA membership. just think about it before you cast that ballot because by voting Remain you're committing this country to ever closer union and thus another inevitable referendum.

[The Don]

no you cannot when the legal system of the EU operates contrary to what you are claiming. sorry dude but i think you know what i am saying is legally sound and politically undeniable but you're just too proud to climb down from your position on this. if you're being truthful that you don't want more powers to go to the European Union and its European institutions which is the position i hold along with the vast majority of the population, then you should be backing either EEA or EFTA membership. just think about it before you cast that ballot because by voting Remain you're committing this country to ever closer union and thus another inevitable referendum.

I want to eat cake for every meal. That doesn't mean I want to get fat.

Speak for yourself when you say the EU is forcing people together when they don't want to be, quite clearly a large portion of the British public want to remain part of the EU and therefore want to "be together" with the other people of Europe.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I can want to eat cake for every meal. That doesn't mean I want to get fat.

Speak for yourself when you say the EU is forcing people together when they don't want to be, quite clearly a large portion of the British public want to remain part of the EU and therefore want to "be together" with the other people of Europe.

Only because they're being fed the lie that no more powers will be going to Brussels when they will.

And you can be 'together' via EEA/EFTA but without more powers going to EU institutions. That's what you claim you want so why not back Leave/EEA/EFTA.

The big problem here is that, if Remain do win the referendum and the European Union acquires more powers (as it will) then ultimately there are going to be calls for another referendum over the next decade and one will be held: with a lot of people who voted Remain pissed they were lied to as they were in 1975 about no more powers going over to Brussels. Why commit the country to a project that is going in the opposite direction to what we want, along with another decade of uncertainty, when we can come to our senses now and realise we've gone as far as we're going to go in terms of integration?

That just seems to me to be so sensible and logical.

[The Don]

that's nice but not what I was discussing